From pravin.d.s at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 08:52:46 2013 From: pravin.d.s at gmail.com (pravin.d.s at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 14:22:46 +0530 Subject: [Lohit-devel-list] Cant improt feature file having blank feature tag for lookups Message-ID: Hi, Original file with all lookups Lohit-Devanagari.sfd [1] Generated feature file from above file Lohit-Devanagari.fea [2] Try to import Lohit-Devanagari.fea file back to Lohit-Devanagari.sfd It gives following error "Expected tag in feature on line 576 of Lohit-Devanagari.fea Unexpected token, language, on line 579 of Lohit-Devanagari.fea" Expected results: It should allow to import lookups having blank feature tag. Best Regards, Pravin Satpute 1. http://pravins.fedorapeople.org/Lohit-Devanagari.sfd 2. http://pravins.fedorapeople.org/Lohit-Devanagari.fea -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at lab6.com Fri Sep 13 12:59:02 2013 From: dave at lab6.com (Dave Crossland) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 14:59:02 +0200 Subject: [Lohit-devel-list] [Fontforge-devel] Cant improt feature file having blank feature tag for lookups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Filed at https://github.com/fontforge/fontforge/issues/744 From pravin.d.s at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 06:05:39 2013 From: pravin.d.s at gmail.com (pravin.d.s at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 11:35:39 +0530 Subject: [Lohit-devel-list] Things improved in fontforge this year. Message-ID: Hi All, Blog mentioning things improved in fontfoge. http://blog.craftingtype.com/post/61363593090/15-things-that-improved-in-fontforge-this-year Regards, Pravin Satpute -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psatpute at redhat.com Thu Sep 19 07:08:18 2013 From: psatpute at redhat.com (Pravin Satpute) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 12:38:18 +0530 Subject: [Lohit-devel-list] Before the release of Alpha Lohit Devanagari from lohit2 project Message-ID: <523AA2E2.6080402@redhat.com> Hi All, I am hoping now most of the contributors around are aware regarding the lohit2 project. Before the Alpha release of Lohit Devanagari i think it is important to go through once again goals we planned for this project[1]. Goals: * 1. Cleaning Lohit Open type tables.* Highlights are as below - We rewritten all GSUB rules from scratch. - New rules are supporting both deva and dev2 script tag - Done testing on Harfbuzz as well with Uniscribe and its giving expected results. - Kept GPOS tables intact. - Effectiveness and efficiency [2] (sfd file size is down by 28K and Binary file side is down by 4K) Found one bug w.r.t harfbuzz [3] and looking forward to get it resolved soon. Presently it is in know issue list. By Beta we will have some more improvement on this. * 2. Reusable Open type tables.* We got two important suggestions on this line, so below are suggestions and action taken on it. * 1st suggestion* To have feature file separate than shapes .sfd file for easy re-usability of OT rules. - Thanks to AravindaK, he has already done some work on that line[4], so just using those stuff. I have forked this gitrepo and doing some improvement in it. Once done will request Aravinda to merge with his repo. * 2nd suggestion* To follow AGL[5] and to have readable glyph naming. We were also thinking from this perspective. - This has became a bit complex glyphlist.txt [6] suggest names like "kadeva" or uni0915. But we dont want to follow uni0915 as it is not very readable considering our re-usability goals. - {0915 (kadeva) + 094D (viramadeva) + 0937 (ssadeva)} following this create chances of glyph name string more than 31 characters limit. - So present plan is follow above "kadeva_viramadeva_ssadeva" as much as possible and if it goes above 31 characters we will discard "deva" part from glyphname. * 3. Following of existing standards/guidelines* Dont know how many of you aware regarding "Devanagari Script Behaviour For Hindi"[7] Draft, so its basically guideline for Font developers. I have one blog pending on this. Though this is draft mode we are trying to follow this, since it is very informative and prepared after consulting to language experts. This is where we upto, if anything more needed do provide me your feedback. Also need to decide on release version, i think some version with -alpha will work. Best Regards, Pravin Satpute 1. http://pravin-s.blogspot.in/2013/08/project-creating-standard-and-reusable.html 2. Effective means it should work on all supported platform perfectly and efficient means compact and clear rule 3. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69266 4. https://github.com/aravindavk/ 5. https://sourceforge.net/adobe/aglfn/wiki/AGL%20Specification/ 6. http://kaz.dl.sourceforge.net/project/aglfn.adobe/glyphlist.txt 7. http://tdil-dc.in/tdildcTemp/articles/75443Consolidated%20Feedback%20&%20Observations%20on%20Draft%20Devnagari%20Script%20Behaviour%20Ver%201.4.8_June_13.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pravin.d.s at gmail.com Sat Sep 28 15:51:50 2013 From: pravin.d.s at gmail.com (pravin.d.s at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 21:21:50 +0530 Subject: [Lohit-devel-list] Need information regarding Samvruthokaram ligature in Malayalam fonts Message-ID: Hi All, During discussing on query from Shriramana (in cc), we found that existing ligature of Samvruthokaram (????) is bit different from accepted. It was committed by Rahul Bhalerao (in cc) long time back, but unfortunately there is no reference for this change in commit log. [1] So before reverting this change, i would like to know if there is any reference or attestation available for same. Attached Image: Top image showing existing rendering for ???? and bottom image shows expected rendering of Samvruthokaram. Best Regards, Pravin Satpute 1. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1013183#c1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: images-of-correct-and-incorrect-rendering.png Type: image/png Size: 45266 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Sep 30 03:40:03 2013 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 03:40:03 +0000 Subject: [Lohit-devel-list] [Bug 1013183] Samvruthokaram ligature is wrong In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1013183 Pravin Satpute changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |b.rahul.pm at gmail.com, | |lohit-devel-list at redhat.com --- Comment #6 from Pravin Satpute --- Yeah, Lohit is not default for Malayalam as community prefers Old script fonts. So it is Meera now in Fedora and other open source distros. But i think point is not whether Lohit is default or not. Lohit fonts project always tried to be compliant with the standards so other fonts (upcoming) projects can refer it and be assure that they are compliant with standards. (Unicode compliance, Script behaviour compliance) As mentioned by Shriramana since there is no attestation available i am in favour of reverting this change. But same time as this decision was done by community with proper discussion, it definitely has weight and i will recommend to have some more debate openly and push it as in script reforms may be. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. Unsubscribe from this bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=Az5eCYHCIJ&a=cc_unsubscribe From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Sep 30 03:41:37 2013 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 03:41:37 +0000 Subject: [Lohit-devel-list] [Bug 1013183] [ml_IN] Samvruthokaram ligature is wrong In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1013183 Pravin Satpute changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Summary|Samvruthokaram ligature is |[ml_IN] Samvruthokaram |wrong |ligature is wrong -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. Unsubscribe from this bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=hyn8iOw9ew&a=cc_unsubscribe From b.rahul.pm at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 06:54:58 2013 From: b.rahul.pm at gmail.com (Rahul Bhalerao) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:24:58 +0530 Subject: [Lohit-devel-list] Need information regarding Samvruthokaram ligature in Malayalam fonts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As per my own records and the recommendations I had proposed for Indic rendering fixes, the issue of samvruthokaram had more to do with the rendering engine than the font itself. The recommendations can be found here: http://rbhalera.fedorapeople.org/Documents/RenderingRecommendations-up.html#3. Malayalam|region The original issue was as follows: - The 'samvruthokaram' syllable in malayalam is actually a half vowel which is formed by vowel 'U' (Unicode 0D41) followed by the halanth character in malayalam. - Since halanth is by default allowed only after a consonant, the sequence for samvruthokaram was yielding a dotted circle in between - Hence it was necessary to amend the rendering engine to allow this sequence There is a long discussion on this and few other issues on the old bug at: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=242016 Regarding the shape of the syllable, there seem to be practices, one of which includes using chillu character shape. "transliterated as *?* (for example, ? *na* ? ?? *n?*). Optionally, a vowel sign *u* is inserted, as in ??? (= ? + ? + ?). " - wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayalam_alphabet You may find more details in: http://varamozhi.blogspot.in/2005_06_01_archive.html http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2005/05210-malayalam.pdf As far the shape of the glyph in Lohit font is concerned, once the rendering engine issue of dotted circle was resolved, the shape of the ligature for samvruthokaram was changed on the request of Ani Peter. I am not able to find the old bug in bugzilla but remember that the particular ligature was added on request from Ani. May be Ani can give some linguistic justification for the particular shape which I am not aware of. Regards, Rahul. On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 9:21 PM, pravin.d.s at gmail.com wrote: > Hi All, > > During discussing on query from Shriramana (in cc), we found that > existing ligature of Samvruthokaram (????) is bit different from accepted. > > It was committed by Rahul Bhalerao (in cc) long time back, but > unfortunately there is no reference for this change in commit log. [1] > > So before reverting this change, i would like to know if there is any > reference or attestation available for same. > > Attached Image: Top image showing existing rendering for ???? and bottom > image shows expected rendering of Samvruthokaram. > > Best Regards, > Pravin Satpute > > > 1. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1013183#c1 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samjnaa at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 16:05:55 2013 From: samjnaa at gmail.com (Shriramana Sharma) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 21:35:55 +0530 Subject: [Lohit-devel-list] Need information regarding Samvruthokaram ligature in Malayalam fonts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Rahul Bhalerao wrote: > The original issue was as follows: > - The 'samvruthokaram' syllable in malayalam is actually a half vowel which > is formed by vowel 'U' (Unicode 0D41) followed by the halanth character in > malayalam. > - Since halanth is by default allowed only after a consonant, the sequence > for samvruthokaram was yielding a dotted circle in between > - Hence it was necessary to amend the rendering engine to allow this > sequence Yeah but there is no justification for inventing a new ligature. Inventing new written forms as part of script should not be done by font makers/maintainers. The user community as per guidance of scholars should invent these and if officially/widely accepted then font makers should update their font > There is a long discussion on this and few other issues on the old bug at: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=242016 I don't seem to find any detail there on this particular issue. > As far the shape of the glyph in Lohit font is concerned, once the rendering > engine issue of dotted circle was resolved, the shape of the ligature for > samvruthokaram was changed on the request of Ani Peter. I am not able to > find the old bug in bugzilla but remember that the particular ligature was > added on request from Ani. May be Ani can give some linguistic justification > for the particular shape which I am not aware of. If there is any attestation for the use and acceptance of this ligature in the script as seen in books/newspapers etc, I'd like to see that. I feel Lohit is NOT the platform for glyph inventions... -- Shriramana Sharma ???????????? ???????????? From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Sep 30 16:27:11 2013 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 16:27:11 +0000 Subject: [Lohit-devel-list] [Bug 1013183] [ml_IN] Samvruthokaram ligature is wrong In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1013183 --- Comment #7 from Shriramana Sharma --- (In reply to Santhosh Thottingal from comment #5) > Correcting some facts: > > (In reply to Shriramana Sharma from comment #4) > > probably because nobody writes Samvruthokaram nowadays. > > I myself use it in daily use and I know a number of people using it. Bill > boards in street using this is not rare. Agreed the usage is minimal. I am aware that the Samvruthokaram *sound* occurs regularly as part of Malayalam. I was however given to know that the VS-U + Chandrakala form of *writing* the Samvruthokaram is rare. In any case, the question is whether this samvruthokaram ligature enjoys attestation/acceptance among the widespread Malayali scholarly/otherwise community or not. > Lohit Malayalam is not the system default font for ml in any distros I know. > It is packaged in most of the distros. OK on this apparently I was wrong. (In reply to Pravin Satpute from comment #6) > But i think point is not whether Lohit is default or not. Lohit fonts > project always tried to be compliant with the standards so other fonts > (upcoming) projects can refer it and be assure that they are compliant with > standards. (Unicode compliance, Script behaviour compliance) Exactly. None of these standards seem to give attestation for this. > But same time as this decision was done by community with proper discussion, > it definitely has weight and i will recommend to have some more debate > openly and push it as in script reforms may be. I beg to differ. It was the decision/invention of a few people who were attending the FOSS.in conference in 2008. It was not the decision of Kerala Govt or Malayalam language academia or Malayali public. So it's entirely different. If I talk to some of my technically knowledgeable friends and invent a new Tamil ligature for J-NYA will you publish it as part of Lohit Tamil? Certainly not, because it is not accepted as part of recognized Tamil script. Likewise this should be treated and the ligature removed forthwith, IMO. Those who like to have the ligature for their private preference/usage can always have a forked version of Lohit Malayalam on their computer. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. Unsubscribe from this bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=12NT52ZQ8T&a=cc_unsubscribe From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Sep 30 18:31:17 2013 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 18:31:17 +0000 Subject: [Lohit-devel-list] [Bug 1013183] [ml_IN] Samvruthokaram ligature is wrong In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1013183 Pravin Satpute changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |ASSIGNED --- Comment #8 from Pravin Satpute --- I will fix this bug and other open issue in this week and do the minor release of lohit malayalam. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. Unsubscribe from this bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=RWEe4BQ0Th&a=cc_unsubscribe