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RE: 20 minutes with Phoebe3 were enough to find a number of bugs



On Thu, 2003-02-20 at 02:46, Eugenia Loli-Queru wrote:


> And there are no rules that say that I should be here since Beta1. 
> I am a
> reviewer, I can pop up any time I want, I am NOT your regular beta tester
> (and no, that doesn't make me a VIP). In fact, reviewers don't even try
> betas. 

Logic fault...you are a reviewer...you installed a
beta...contradiction...core dump.

> But I explained VERY clearly why I  reported these bugs, which was
> because I wanted to give an opportunity to Red Hat instead of only loading
> the final version and find bugs and then give them a negative review. 
And im saying that yer explanations rings hollow. If you really want to
see the bugs taken care of, everyone would have been better served if
you installed the previous betas and reported bugs ASAP.  What I am
suggesting is that you don't really care if the bugs are fixed...what
you want is to install this third beta, and make a half-hearted attempt
at reporting bugs late in the game so you can have something to gripe
about that Redhat has failed to fix yer bugs even though you reported
them.  Which is it, as a reviewer are you an unbiased outside observer
who doesn't install beta products at all...or are you invested in the
idea that you can help make things better by pointing out bugs in the
beta phase.  If yer going to help out...help out...as a reviewer you
know exactly the kind of timetable redhat is working in...and if you
know what the ceo is eating for breakfast, then you better sure as hell
know the internal development schedule redhat has for things like ui
freezes.  So either yer playing dumb about what redhat's development and
release schedule time constraints, and are purposely coming in at the
last minute just to make sure you can give redhat a black eye the in
your article that yer pet peeves weren't fixed at the last minute. Or
you aren't playing dumb, and you are just hoping to bully redhat with
yer thinly veiled threat, to make yer bugs a priority.

> I
> wanted to help damn it, and you come here and you spit on me?

you came in threatening to give redhat a bad review. You didn't need to
tell anyone you were a reviewer...you didn't need to remind redhat
developers that when the final beta ships reviewers will notice obvious
bugs like mozilla not working...like koffice not working in gnome menus.
Everyone knows what the score is on the need for spit and polish in the
final release. If all you wanted was help and to help, you could have
come in as a regular user and mentioned the problems your having and
that would have been fine. But you made it a point to bring up how these
bugs will negatively affect redhat's review...it was a threat..and it
was offensive to me.  Thanks captain of the obvious...thanks for bring
the point home that bugs suck...obvious bugs suck even more....and
reviewers like you will shake their heads in dismay if they see them in
the final release.  Take out the second sentence in yer first post in
this thread and things are fine...

> >Showing up now, looks to me like you just care about being able to write a
> review of the next official release, and aren't
> really invested in the beta process at all
> 
> Of course! Reviewers don't have to be beta testers! 

But wouldn't the world be a better place if all the reviewers were? Why
AREN"T reviewers beta testers?  Seems particularly crass to me to sit
back and wait for all that lovely Open Source Community bugbusting to
happen and then step in and suddenly notice all these obvious
problems...much more valuable for everyone if you did step in as a
normal user and be a part of the process from day one.  Or slightly less
valuable show up as a 3rd beta normal user. But it certainly doesn't
help to say you are a reviewer and threaten to give a bad review. 

> But I decided to help
> the situation based on what happened the previous time I wrote a review.
You want to help?
Be a beta tester for real...
Don't mention yer a reviewer...pretend yer a normal end-user having
problems.

> I am truly offended by your email. I am here to help and get helped.
And i was offended by your initial post...so we are even i guess...
I'll shutup now and leave my own editorializing out of the rest of the
discussion.  Last thing i want is for you to walk away now that yer
here, thats only going to cause redhat problems.  I'll just expunge the
fact that I know you are a reviewer, and just treat you like a regular
user. Ah...much better....where were we....koffice and mozilla bug
hunting.

-jef"...end of rant...before I get redhat in major trouble"spaleta

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