Mostly off topic, Evolution question

Fri Apr 28 17:08:39 UTC 2006

On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 10:56 +0200, Andrew Kelly wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 09:47 -0700, Rick Stevens wrote:
> > On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 12:52 +0200, Andrew Kelly wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > > please forgive how off topic this posting is; I have a query for the
> > > multi-booters on the list.
> > > 
> > > Have any of you any experience with sharing data between
> distributions
> > > with high similarities? The specific scenario I'm after is this:
> > > 
> > > I have FC5 on a laptop, as well as the newest Ubuntu. I spent the
> last
> > > half year or so using FC4 exclusively and was pretty much very
> pleased
> > > with it all. FC5, however, seems nearly a step backwards and I'm not
> at
> > > all sure I want to use it much longer. But I'd like to keep it
> through a
> > > fair shakedown phase, maybe see if any coming updates brighten
> things
> > > up. Parallel, though, I'd like to test drive Ubuntu as a potential
> > > replacement. Right, nuff background.
> > > 
> > > What I'm after is sharing a single evolution instance between FC5
> and
> > > Ubuntu, so that I won't lose my mind trying to keep track of which
> mail
> > > might be where. Eventually I'll put up a dovecot server or something
> > > somewhere and migrate everything "off site", but for now I'm curious
> if
> > > I can share data in this way considering Gnome and Evolution are
> pretty
> > > standard on both sides.
> > > 
> > > If I were to, say, move my .evolution folder to a separate partition
> and
> > > mount it in my home dir in both Distros, what are the chances that
> > > within a week I'd have munged my mail beyond repair?
> > > 
> > > Anybody out there done anything like this?
> > 
> > I have.  While I can't speak to Evolution specifically, it does work
> > with Mozilla/Thunderbird and I've not had any issues regarding
> > corrupted mailboxes.  Since the data regarding the account is kept in
> > the .evolution (or .mozilla or .firefox) directory (logins, mail
> paths,
> > etc.), it should work fine unless Evolution itself changes the way it
> > stores things.  All bets are off then!
> 
> Assuming I could then keep the two instances of Evolution in sync, then
> even a change in storage methodology should fly on both wings (so to
> speak), as long as the both updated before accessing data. Pretty low
> probability scenario, though.

When I say "the way it stores things", I mean the actual file formats
and such.  If they change it, they usually provide a "migration" tool
that will convert from old to new, but usually not vice-versa.  That
means that both of your Evolution instances must expect the same file
formats or one will break.

As an example, I've just converted one of my old FC4 machines to FC5 via
a full reinstall.  I saved all my old ".mozilla" files on separate
media, reinstalled (and that's a new version of Firefox and Mozilla),
reinstalled the files and everything's fine.  That's roughly the same
as booting a different OS using a separate file system.

> 
> > 
> > BTW, a standard practice is to create an entirely separate "/home"
> > partition for user home directories.  Obviously, this gets mounted as
> > "/home" on all of your distros so the users have a consistent home
> > directory regardless of which one is booted.  You must synchronize the
> > passwd, shadow and group files of course, unless you're using NIS, NIS
> +
> > or LDAP for authentication.
> 
> I thought about that, but it's a laptop we're dealing with and nobody
> gets to touch it but me (mine mine mine), so I'm the only user. Still,
> it was worth the thought. But in the end I opted not to because it's
> possible I'll have distinct settings in certain apps, based on the
> distro. I didn't want to risk things like .bashrc getting mooshed back
> and forth.

Well, in that case, you _could_ put the files you wish to share (e.g.
"~/.evolution") on a separate filesystem and set up symlinks to in the
home directories on both distributions.

> > What specific problems are you having with FC5?  I find it hard to
> > believe you consider it a "step backward".  Beyond some upgrade issues
> > with the installer, FC5 is pretty good.  There are a lot of inherent
> > differences "under the hood" between it and FC4, so perhaps you're
> still
> > trying to get used to those, but I'd hardly call it a step back.
> 
> Well, along with the issues already addressed by Karl, my primary point
> of frustration at the moment is the broken session management in Gnome.
> I like to boot with certain apps open in certain workspaces and it was
> easy in FC4 to set things up, and then save the session at logout.
> Subsequent boots gave you what you'd set up and everything was groovy.
> FC5 lets me save automatically on logout, or not at all. So I either
> have to shut down with exactly what I want to see at next boot, or set
> it up from scratch each boot. It's a gnome thing, so I don't know why
> it's suddenly broken in 5 when it worked in 4 (and works in Ubuntu).

> So far most of my additional complaints are petty and based on the
> assumptions that FC makes for me. Bad defaults.
> Not many show stoppers, but a lot of annoyances. 
> 
> Things like displaying folder contents as large icons rather than in a
> proper list, the annoyance of SELinux settings, an updater that still
> can't hold a candle to apt. And stupid things that should work without
> any thinking involved, but either don't or require effort to set up.
> 
> I should be able to hang a monitor on my laptop, and it should bloody
> well light up when I push the button, even if only using dumb values
> like a resolution of 800x600. Firefox should be able to install a flash
> plugin without any special theatrics, an Adobe Reader rpm should pop in
> and work instantly, Totem should be pre-loaded with a hand full of
> standard codecs, the installer should by now be able to detect and fire
> up a centrino wifi, the display should be found at install on a laptop,
> etc. and so forth.
> 
> I've pulled over a GB of updates in the 3 or 4 weeks I've been test
> driving FC5, I find that a little harsh.
> 
> You know, I can't really point my finger and say "and that is why I
> moved to <insert distro here>", but all in all I'm having to do too much
> to be able to carry on with my day as I did before moving to FC5.
> 
> Hmm, and I guess that I'm quietly pissed that my RHCE is about to expire
> and that I have to vomit up nearly a grand to keep it all from having
> been a waste of time, even though the underlying tech is relatively
> unchanged.

I haven't really beaten on FC5 yet so I can't speak to those issues.
I intend to flog the merciless hell out of it this weekend and may have
data to report.  I hope in the meantime that you post on the fedora-list
and those folk should be able to help.

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- Rick Stevens, Senior Systems Engineer     rstevens at vitalstream.com -
- VitalStream, Inc.                       http://www.vitalstream.com -
-                                                                    -
- Millihelen, adj: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. -
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