FDSCo Meeting 2007-05-20 IRC log

Karsten Wade kwade at redhat.com
Sun May 20 18:04:32 UTC 2007

... must ... remember ... to change ... canned Subject ...

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09:04 < quaid> <meeting>
09:05 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda
09:06 < quaid> 07:42 < stickster> If I can connect from my buddy's house I will do so
09:06 < quaid> 07:45 < stickster> In case I don't make it, release-notes are currently  building fine from CVS HEAD
09:06 < quaid> 07:45 < stickster> The IG is progressing, see f-docs-commits for detail
09:06 < quaid> 07:46 < stickster> Closd a number of bugs yesterday for IG
09:07 < quaid> so, at least those essential pieces are in the clear
09:07 < quaid> I still plan a good round of edits to the IG
09:07 < quaid> anyone should give it a go; you can use Yelp to display the XML in real-time for easy editing fun.
09:08 < JonRob> (still to get my teeth into cvs...maybe this is a good chance)
09:09 < quaid> yeh, it's pretty easy
09:10 < couf> ah yeah, saw that some time ago, any link?
09:11 < quaid> sorry, CVS usage?
09:11 < couf> quaid: yelp :-)
09:11 < quaid> ah
09:11 < couf> my bad
09:11 < quaid> hmm, you know ... we haven't a write up
09:11 < quaid> maybe under DP/Tools ?
09:11 < JonRob> it's in the archives...the bit about yelp
09:12 < quaid> anyway, you just do 'yelp /path/to/RELEASE-NOTES.xml
09:12 < quaid> anyway, you just do 'yelp /path/to/RELEASE-NOTES.xml &'
09:12 < quaid> it will build up the whole document that is called by that parent XML file, and display it
09:12 < couf> ah right, thanks
09:13 < quaid> then when you edit, you just reload (I close and reopen, since there isn't a reload function I've seen)
09:13 < quaid> so, about the guides ...
09:13 < JonRob> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-April/msg00199.html
09:13  * jmbuser will document this soon - very slick
09:13 < JonRob> is the message
09:13 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#guides-schedule
09:13 < couf> thanks JonRob
09:14 < quaid> ok, now that schedule is for anything that we want to get translated in time for release
09:14 < quaid> last week we decided that the relnotes and IG are the two "must haves" for release
09:15 < quaid> so, yes, anything the group can do to help make sure that the IG goes to trans on time is a Good Thing.
09:15 < quaid> as for the other guides ...
09:15 < quaid> we have strong leadership from jmbuser for the UG, but ...
09:16 < quaid> jmbuser: do you have an identified team helping?  or is it a loose group?  do you want it formalized more?
09:16 < jmbuser> quaid: No identifiable group so far...correct me if I'm wrong
09:17 < quaid> hmm
09:17 < JonRob> i'll jump in if you need it
09:17 < JonRob> will have a lot more time this week
09:17 < quaid> well, yes the folks on the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Contributors page ... aren't that evident currently
09:17 < jmbuser> quaid: I'm willing to solo, but I would prefer an ensemble effort
09:17 < jmbuser> JonRob: Thanks
09:17 < quaid> JonRob: consider yourself engaged with this then :)
09:18 < quaid> add yourself to the Contributors page
09:18 < JonRob> quaid: sure
09:18 < JonRob> jmbuser: no problem :D
09:18 < jmbuser> I need to put the framework in place - and then please fill in where you can
09:18 < jmbuser> quaid: +1
09:18 < couf> jmbuser's grand idea for the FUG :-)
09:18 < quaid> jmbuser: one tip, feel free to brain-dump into the wiki, just put a comment in the commit note about the state of the content
09:19 < quaid> that helps editors know "ignore, edit, or make pariah from" :)
09:19 < jmbuser> quaid: NP - I noticed an "es" translation of the docs/drafts version today - very scary
09:19 < quaid> in the wiki?  eek
09:19 < couf> yeah, should we talk to that guy?
09:19 < quaid> definitely shouldn't be translating in the Wiki
09:19 < jmbuser> quaid: I was thinking of a warning label
09:20 < quaid> yes
09:20 < couf> he's been keeping up with your work for most of it
09:20 < quaid> at this point, we are moving clearly to Plone, although the schedule is a bit unknown when what will be where
09:20 -!- [splinux] [n=[splinux at fedora/splinux] has joined #fedora-docs
09:21 < quaid> hey, there's one of the folks who has written for the UG
09:21 < jmbuser> I deinitely need to put something like a "blasting zone" danger sign up :-)
09:21 < couf> [splinux]: damien run ;-)
09:21 < jmbuser> s/deinitely/definitely/
09:21 < quaid> [splinux]: we're on the final push for the Fedora User Guide for F7, if you are interested in helping with this release 
09:21 < quaid> :)
09:22 < jmbuser> [splinux]: Welcome
09:23 < [splinux]> hey all
09:23 < couf> so first call is IG, anyone willing to spend some time, get into the FUG
09:23 -!- pingou_laptop [n=pingou at haar113.athome221.WAU.NL] has joined #fedora-docs
09:23 < pingou_laptop> hi
09:23 < quaid> in fact, the IG is just a few days from going out for translation, so that is quite timely
09:23 < [splinux]> quaid, I'm busy for this week :(
09:24 < jmbuser> I will take responsibility for not hassling, er, following up with contributors
09:24 < quaid> [splinux]: no worries, just pouncing since you walked in the channel in a timely fashion :)
09:24 < [splinux]> :)
09:25 < jmbuser> IG is higher priority - we can do an F7 FUG announcement later, like for FC6 DUG
09:26 < quaid> yep
09:26 < quaid> ok, let's try another on-list reminder this week to help with the UG
09:27 < jmbuser> I plan to finish the outline, so that volunteers can pick a section and fill it out
09:27 < quaid> cool!
09:27 < jmbuser> I can also advertise it on my blog - after the outline's in place
09:27 < couf> yeah, get that out somewhere too
09:27 < JonRob> jmbuser: are you going to clean out a lot of the screenshots from later on in the guide?
09:27 < quaid> let's feature it a bit on the DP/Tasks page
09:27 < JonRob> i'll put it in fwn if appropriate
09:28 < quaid> not all the pieces, just a few pointers, maybe start a DP/Tasks/UserGuide for everythin
09:28 < jmbuser> JonRob: I plan to remove all screenshots except for the three desktops and I will leave in icons
09:28 < couf> quaid: +1
09:29 < JonRob> jmbuser: cool
09:29 < jmbuser> JonRob: This will speed things up  and make it easier to translate
09:29 < JonRob> will look better too i think
09:29 < jmbuser> JonRob: agreed
09:30 < quaid> I haven't been able to do much extra at all, such as the Tasks page, we still need to jam it ahead as a collaboratively built page
09:32 < JonRob> quaid: if i find the time i'll help out here too
09:33 < quaid> ok, so for the rest of the guides ...
09:34 < couf> AG guide is something we should get started on post F7
09:35 < couf> and as fast as possible, to get this out somewhat half of the F8 cycle, as this doesn't change that much between releases
09:36 < quaid> we're having a bit of a lull in writing participation, is this just the time of year (school end) and near-to-release?
09:36 < quaid> maybe we should do the bulk of writing for these kind of guides between releases, and just have them updated lightly when the next release  near?
09:36 < JonRob> quaid: sounds like a good approach, minimises stress!
09:36 < jmbuser> quaid: +1
09:36 < couf> quaid: yeah, a combination of both
09:36 < couf> quaid: +1
09:38 < JonRob> what do people think of the software management guide?
09:39 < JonRob> could a lot of that be pulled into the admin guide?
09:39 < JonRob> or maybe the essentials
09:39 < quaid> well
09:39 < quaid> it's for end-users
09:39 < pingou_laptop> I have to go ...
09:39 -!- pingou_laptop [n=pingou at haar113.athome221.WAU.NL] has left #fedora-docs ["Salut!!"]
09:40 < quaid> JonRob: we wouldn't want to send end-users into a chapter of the AG to learn something, too scary
09:40 < quaid> the idea of the stand-alone is to empower those users, "oh, this is easy"
09:40 < couf> part in DUG, part in AG?
09:40 < JonRob> quaid: yeah but a lot of the SMG is pretty scary!
09:40 < couf> as in updating your software -> DUG, adding repo's -> AG
09:40 < quaid> hmm
09:40 < quaid> true that
09:41 < quaid> mether: you about?
09:41 < quaid> that's a sensible proposal, i think
09:41 < quaid> JonRob: can you make that suggestion (as couf laid it out) on-list?
09:42 < JonRob> quaid: sure
09:42 < quaid> mether has been doing the bulk of the work there, I'm sure he'll think it's a good idea, and the advantage of adding a little content to grow an existing team effort is a good one
09:43 < quaid> ok, then, let's cover the last item ...
09:44 < quaid> en v. en_US etc.
09:44 < quaid> now, I claim near-ignorance here, I've never researched the standards and UTF needs and such
09:45 < JonRob> (posted to the list, hope i got the message across)
09:47 < couf> hmm it seems the official list says it's a three character thing right now
09:47 < couf> http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/ISO-639-2_values_8bits-utf-8.txt
09:47 < couf> http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php
09:47 < couf> last one is a bit easier to read
09:49 < quaid> so what is the deal with the _XY
09:49 < couf> it seemed to have never been an ISO-standard
09:49 -!- [splinux] [n=[splinux at fedora/splinux] has left #fedora-docs ["Quitte"]
09:51 < couf> so that would mean ...
09:52 < couf> a) everything has to a ab-type code
09:52 < couf> b) change like everything to the newest ISO standard, meaning docs, software, ....
09:52 < couf> and hope that gettext get's this
09:57 < couf> ah, got the _XY, it's the country code, which may be added to specify to which country this specific translation applies
09:59 < quaid> ah
09:59 < quaid> cool
10:00 < quaid> couf: we do specifically use US English in these cases
10:00 < quaid> why?
10:00 < quaid> I want a Brit to be able to write en_UK and then I can become a translator!
10:01 < couf> quaid: you're americans ;-)
10:01 < couf> as such, should we move everything on docs.fp.org to use en_US instead of en?
10:02 < quaid> probably
10:02 < quaid> in fact, that is a leftover inconsistency yes
10:03 < quaid> ok, let's confirm this detail to the list so there are no surprises
10:03  * quaid asks couf to send that email
10:03 < quaid> and then we can close this meetin'
10:03 < couf> sure
10:04 < quaid> rather ... any other business/topics?
10:04 < couf> ow yeah, I've got one left
10:04 < couf> are we gonna update the style to the new static page style, or stay like it is and wait for plone?
10:05 < JonRob> there's a new static page style!?
10:06 < couf> JonRob: yeah, it's coming http://fedora.riczho.dyndns.org/static/
10:06 < quaid> oh, we can wait
10:06 < quaid> well, I see what you mean
10:06 < quaid> we could update docs.fp.o, sure
10:06 < quaid> ultimately, yes, Plone will handle it, and we'll port the CSS to the Wiki as well
10:06 < JonRob> couf: cool :D
10:07 < quaid> JonRob: static page because we want the front of fp.o to load fast for the release, unlike for FC-6
10:07 < quaid> so we're doing two-birds, one-stone -- static page and new style for the site
10:07 < JonRob> quaid: yeah, is awesome idea i think
10:07 < quaid> couf: let's plan on updating docs.fp.o with the new style, once it is fully baked
10:08 < quaid> it's actually in CVS now, so we could start experimenting
10:08 < couf> quaid: cool
10:08  * quaid is not sure if there are any here who like to play with CSS
10:08 < quaid> actually, I like it now, but I'm jammed on time, so I probably won't play
10:08  * couf thinks glezos ;-)
10:08 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
10:08 < quaid> but it is all in cvs.fp.o:/cvs/web/static
10:09 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at] has joined #fedora-docs
10:09 < quaid> yeah, when glezos gets back from galavanting around, we'll ask him, if it's not done already :)
10:09 < couf> okay, well if I find some time, I'll have a got at it
10:10 < couf> that's all for me
10:10 < quaid> it's probably pretty straightforward
10:10 < quaid> esp with the Web Developer plugin for Firefox
10:10 < quaid> ok, if there is nothing more ...
10:10  * quaid waits 30 seconds
10:10 < couf> Web Devel + Firebug ++ :-)
10:11 < quaid> do they do similar things? or are they complementary?
10:11 < quaid> final countdown ...
10:11 < quaid> 5
10:11 < quaid> 4
10:11 < quaid> 3
10:11 < quaid> 2
10:11 < quaid> 1
10:11 < quaid> </meeting>
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