Re: [K12OSN] Interview with Larry Cuban, Author of “Oversold and Underused: Computers in the Classroom”

[Jim McQuillan]

Steve,

Thank you for writing about the interview.  I haven't had a chance to 
listen to the recording yet, but I found the summary incredibly 
interesting and thought provoking.

I'm looking forward to the next one.

Thanks,

Jim McQuillan
jam at Ltsp.org



Steve Hargadon wrote:
> http://educationbridges.net/k12opensource/wp-content/uploads/LarryCuban.mp3 
>
>
> The link above is to my EdTechLive.com interview with Larry Cuban,
> Emeritus Professor of Education at Stanford University, and the author
> of the 2001 book "Oversold and Underused: Computers in the Classroom."
> (This interview could not be "skypecast" because of some problem at
> Skype at the time.)
>
> Maybe this was not a natural interview for someone who sells computers
> for a living, but let's chalk it up to the the quest for "truth" and a
> desire--as a computer lover--to understand why the efforts to put
> computers in the classroom have not had broader success in improving
> teaching and learning. And while there was a natural tendency in the
> interview to focus on the "oversold" part of Dr. Cuban's message, the
> opportunity seems to lie in understanding the "underused" part.
>
> Professor Cuban provides a very balanced and thoughtful perspective on
> the use of computers in schools–or rather, the non-use thereof. First,
> to counter the perception that it is the fault of the teachers that
> computers aren't being more broadly adopted in the classroom, he shows
> that most teachers are actually active computer users themselves as
> they prepare for their classes and organize their work. We therefore,
> he says, need to look deeper than a perceived "resistance" by teachers
> to explain the lack of technology integration in the classroom.
>
> Dr. Cuban gives us a glimpse of the incredible challenges teachers
> face in trying to accomplish all that is asked of them, and asks us to
> consider that teachers would more likely embrace computer technology
> in the classroom if it actually helped them do their jobs better or
> more easily. He gives the example of the video-cassette player and the
> overhead projector--both technologies that became quickly and easily
> integrated into teaching. Can we really expect, if there are
> relatively few computers available to students, if they are available
> only for limited periods of time, and if they are often unreliable,
> that it would really make sense for a teachers to change the way they
> teach because of computers?
>
> While pointing out that there are ways in which computers have been
> clearly shown to improve academic performance, he says that by and
> large there is a surprising lack of significant studies or real data
> to show where those benefits exist and where they don't. Instead, he
> is concerned, the factors which really seems to drive the purchase and
> implementation of computer technology are not usually the teachers'
> needs or requests, but a push from those outside of the classroom:
> politicians, parents, and administrators. Well before the publication
> of The World Is Flat, and across political lines, there has been a
> concern that we are "a nation at risk," and that we need to make sure
> our children are computer "savvy." He made a fascinating point in the
> interview: if you go to a college campus, you will see computers in
> active use by faculty and students--so the absense of computer use in
> high schools doesn't seem to impede their use in college. (I didn't
> mention it, but my brother, who is a professor of business, has
> actually banned the use of computers in his classes because the
> constant instant messaging and other non-class-focused uses of the
> computer were distracting from his ability to teach.)
>
> What occurred to me is that when the pressures to use computers are
> external, then the more detailed understandings of how they can be
> used successfully get lost. In one of the articles I read to prepare
> for the interview, Dr. Cuban separates computer use in education into
> three categories: computer-assisted instruction, computer-managed
> instruction, and computer-enhanced instruction. (Noticeably missing,
> but probably intentional, is vocational technical training.) While the
> first two, according to the article, have been pretty-well documented
> to improve academic performance, it is the third--the use of computers
> in such a way that transforms the educational process--that is less
> understood. What I think I notice from my interactions with proactive
> and engaged teachers who are excited about certain technologies (like
> blogs and wikis, or Moodle) is that they are experiencing this
> transformational change; and I would imagine that they are likely to
> have have been able to do this because they were so proactive and
> engaged. And if his theories hold true, it will be these kind of
> technologies that really capture teachers' imaginations and desires
> that can ultimately lead to more ubiquitous use of the computer in the
> classroom.
>
> I did ask Dr. Cuban specifically about blogs and wikis, but got the
> sense that these are technologies that are not yet fully on his radar
> as educational tools. I meant to ask about Moodle, and forgot. Based
> on his perspective, I am particularly encouraged by the fact that
> these technologies don't require buying new computers (or even having
> "current" technology), since they really only require a web browser to
> work.
>
> We also talked about the role of commercial companies play in
> "selling" technology to schools. In a free-market economy, it is hard
> to see an alternative, but Dr. Cuban recommends being a "skeptical"
> consumer of those commercial offerings. I've been thinking long and
> hard about this, since I sell computer hardware to schools. The
> conclusion that I have come to is that, as a vendor of technology, I
> need to be exploring ways to understand how to make the computer a
> better and more reliable tool for teachers. K12Computers is way too
> small to effect broad change, but if I ask the right questions and
> start to find the right answers, maybe we can make a difference.
> He also pointed out that if the end-goal is truly academic
> achievement, it may sometimes be measurably better for a school to
> reduce class size or hire more aids than to buy computers. Most of
> those involved in our educational system need to get paid for their
> work, but are actually involved in the work because of a personal
> commitment to the cause of education. It seems, as a vendor to
> schools, we should hold ourselves to the same standard. I'm not quite
> sure how to do this, but it does seem important.
>
> It also seems that Linux and Open Source Software hold the potential
> to reduce acquisition and maintenance costs for providing a computing
> environment. The work in Indiana, in particular, should be very
> instructive. If the cost of having one-to-one computing can be
> significantly reduced, there should be a great opportunity to study
> the transformative effects of this kind of program. And I can't stop
> thinking about the concept of a "web appliance:" a no-maintenance
> computer that provides access to the web. If every classroom in a
> school had some number of "webstations" that the teachers knew were
> always available and would always work, would they begin to integrate
> web reasearch and other web tools into their classwork as easily as
> they have the overhead projector? This is something I would like
> specific feedback on, and would like to try some testing if anyone is
> interested.
>
> -- 
> Steve Hargadon
> steve at hargadon.com
> 916-899-1400 direct
>
> www.SteveHargadon.com - (Blog on Educational Technology)
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>
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