[Patternfly] Truncation guidance for long names

Tue Oct 25 18:42:23 UTC 2016

+1 go for the PR!

also to be clear I am not saying we should not truncating in the middle, I
just want to make us aware of the cost of it.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Liz Blanchard <lsurette at redhat.com> wrote:

> Thank you all for continuing to suggest directions and adding more
> examples of what's used out there for truncation.
>
> I think we all agree that truncation should be used only if needed, so I
> will be sure to add in a statement to encourage folks to try and show the
> full text when possible.
>
> It does sound like we have use cases for both truncation methods, but I
> will suggest that the first method should always be considered first.
> @Andres - maybe we can continue discussions around implementation details
> of method 2 in a PR? I hope to submit something to the design repo today.
>
> Thanks again, everyone!
>
> Liz
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Gabriel Cardoso <gcardoso at redhat.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Andres, MacOS truncates in the middle ;)
>>
>>
>> On 24 Oct 2016, at 13:59, Catherine Robson <crobson at redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>> +1 to needing both end and middle based on the use case.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Matt Carrano <mcarrano at redhat.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The middle truncation is really useful for long path names that will all
>>> share the same prefix.  Think about things like files names or disk names
>>> that are required to display the full path name.  If out truncate the end,
>>> all of the name strings will be identical at a glance.  Middle truncation
>>> allows you to see what's different, which is usually at the end of the long
>>> string.
>>>
>>> I would expect that there are some standard algorithms out there for
>>> doing this.  End truncation is likely to be the default choice, but I think
>>> we need both.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:39 AM, Andres Galante <agalante at redhat.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Liz,
>>>>
>>>> That's great information, this is the first time I heard about
>>>> truncation in the middle of the word.
>>>>
>>>> I am sure that middle of the string truncation can be done with
>>>> javascript, but CSS only allows to do it at the end of it. I'd say that
>>>> unless there is a really good reason to do it in the middle lets try to
>>>> avoid JS.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Andrés
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Matt Carrano <mcarrano at redhat.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is great, Liz.  I think that your proposed text will add a lot of
>>>>> clarity to the choice between these two methods.  Will look forward to
>>>>> seeing some examples of truncated names and we can evaluate further.
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Liz Blanchard <lsurette at redhat.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been thinking about truncation a bit and was looking into some
>>>>>> UX standards on the topic. It's all very much in line with the examples
>>>>>> that Greg and Ju have given. What do you all think about extending the
>>>>>> PatternFly "Truncation" section on the Terminology and Wording page [1] to
>>>>>> include something like the following...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *"Using an ellipsis to truncate a long string is recommended. There
>>>>>>> are two different methods that could be applied. One is to truncate at the
>>>>>>> end of the string "abcdef..." and the other would be to truncate in the
>>>>>>> middle of the string "abc...ghi".Choose the method on the basis of whether
>>>>>>> text at the end or in the middle of the string is more likely to
>>>>>>> differentiate the item. This would be dependent on the domain.On a property
>>>>>>> website, for instance, an address string will usually end 'Road' or
>>>>>>> 'Street'. So the form 'abc...def' won't be much use as the final characters
>>>>>>> will almost always be 'oad' or 'eet', neither of which help the user.If the
>>>>>>> answer is not clear, default to the 'abcdef...' form over 'abc...ghi'.
>>>>>>> Partial words will most likely be easier to guess from the initial
>>>>>>> characters than the end ones. 'Openi...' is much more recognizable than
>>>>>>> '...ening', for example."*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd also like to add in a statement where we suggest the use of the
>>>>>> tool tip on hover to view the entire string.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm working on some specific use cases with the Storage product and
>>>>>> we definitely are seeing the need for both methods. More commonly, we will
>>>>>> be using method 1 for things like Cluster Name and Pool Name, but we are
>>>>>> considering method two for things like Hostname where the end characters
>>>>>> are important in differentiating the items in the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any further thoughts on this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>> Liz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] http://www.patternfly.org/styles/terminology-and-wording/#_
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 8:12 PM, Andres Galante <agalante at redhat.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Matt, we definitely need guides around truncation, not only on
>>>>>>> server names but in general.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's always a grey area how and when to truncate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If working on Tendrl you can come up with some refomendations we can
>>>>>>> apply them to our patterns.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me know if I can help in any way, we can test things up in
>>>>>>> different use cases to see if it works
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Monday, 10 October 2016, Ju Lim <julim at redhat.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This generally works for most names except I've found in certain
>>>>>>>> contexts from previous experience that truncating in the front made more
>>>>>>>> sense, e.g. "...xyz" for MAC Addresses and SAN nicknames as it was less
>>>>>>>> useful doing it as "xyz..." since the beginning portion was repeated a lot
>>>>>>>> and didn't help so much with uniquely identifying the object.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An interesting consideration is if there is a need for truncation
>>>>>>>> of an IPv6 addresses, how do we tackle this.  I know IPv6 already includes
>>>>>>>> truncation in the spec, but there are going to be circumstances where we
>>>>>>>> may need to go beyond this.  Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Ju
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Greg Sheremeta <
>>>>>>>> gshereme at redhat.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Matt / all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This gets tricky when you have machine names in your listings!
>>>>>>>>> my_super_important_vm_1
>>>>>>>>> my_super_important_vm_2
>>>>>>>>> his_super_important_vm_1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ^ Either way you truncate that "column", someone's going to lose
>>>>>>>>> some important info, and looking through the column will be frustrating for
>>>>>>>>> the users.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In oVirt, we take the simple approach and truncate at the end.
>>>>>>>>> And, in most places where there is truncation, hovering over the truncated
>>>>>>>>> string shows you (via tooltip) the entire string:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <Selection_115.png>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My recommendation for PatternFly: recommend / default to end
>>>>>>>>> truncation with "...". I like the hover-show-full-name feature -- that's
>>>>>>>>> something UX people should discuss re: if it should exist and what it would
>>>>>>>>> look like. (We use PF tooltips, but I could see other widgets being useful.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Matt Carrano <mcarrano at redhat.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hey Patternflyers,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am currently working on the Tendrl storage console project and
>>>>>>>>>> need to come up with some guidance on how to truncate long names that may
>>>>>>>>>> appear in our UI.  I'm thinking of things like hostnames, disk names, and
>>>>>>>>>> other types of objects that may take on a potentially long path name based
>>>>>>>>>> on user naming.  PatternFly currently provides some general guidance, but
>>>>>>>>>> no specific rules.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm curious how you are handling this on other projects as I know
>>>>>>>>>> it's a common problem.  Do you truncate in the middle of the string, the
>>>>>>>>>> end of the string, or have another method?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any advice or examples will be welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Matt Carrano
>>>>>>>>>> Sr. Interaction Designer
>>>>>>>>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>> mcarrano at redhat.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Patternfly mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Patternfly at redhat.com
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Greg Sheremeta, MBA
>>>>>>>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>>>>>>>> Sr. Software Engineer
>>>>>>>>> gshereme at redhat.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Patternfly mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Patternfly at redhat.com
>>>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Ju Lim
>>>>>>>> Red Hat
>>>>>>>> Office: 978-399-0422
>>>>>>>> Mobile: 781-507-1323
>>>>>>>> Email: julim at redhat.com
>>>>>>>> IRC: julim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Patternfly mailing list
>>>>>>> Patternfly at redhat.com
>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Patternfly mailing list
>>>>>> Patternfly at redhat.com
>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Matt Carrano
>>>>> Sr. Interaction Designer
>>>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>>>> mcarrano at redhat.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Carrano
>>> Sr. Interaction Designer
>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>> mcarrano at redhat.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Patternfly mailing list
>>> Patternfly at redhat.com
>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Patternfly at redhat.com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>
>>
>> Gabriel Cardoso
>> UX designer @ Red Hat
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> Patternfly at redhat.com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>
>>
>
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