[Patternfly] Truncation guidance for long names

Liz Blanchard lsurette at redhat.com
Tue Oct 25 20:53:50 UTC 2016 

PR can be found here:
https://github.com/patternfly/patternfly-design/pull/34

Feel free to add any further comments there.

Also, shout out to Chris Shinn for helping me with SourceTree woes.

Liz

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Andres Galante <agalante at redhat.com> wrote:

> +1 go for the PR!
>
> also to be clear I am not saying we should not truncating in the middle, I
> just want to make us aware of the cost of it.
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Liz Blanchard <lsurette at redhat.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you all for continuing to suggest directions and adding more
>> examples of what's used out there for truncation.
>>
>> I think we all agree that truncation should be used only if needed, so I
>> will be sure to add in a statement to encourage folks to try and show the
>> full text when possible.
>>
>> It does sound like we have use cases for both truncation methods, but I
>> will suggest that the first method should always be considered first.
>> @Andres - maybe we can continue discussions around implementation details
>> of method 2 in a PR? I hope to submit something to the design repo today.
>>
>> Thanks again, everyone!
>>
>> Liz
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Gabriel Cardoso <gcardoso at redhat.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Andres, MacOS truncates in the middle ;)
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24 Oct 2016, at 13:59, Catherine Robson <crobson at redhat.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 to needing both end and middle based on the use case.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Matt Carrano <mcarrano at redhat.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The middle truncation is really useful for long path names that will
>>>> all share the same prefix.  Think about things like files names or disk
>>>> names that are required to display the full path name.  If out truncate the
>>>> end, all of the name strings will be identical at a glance.  Middle
>>>> truncation allows you to see what's different, which is usually at the end
>>>> of the long string.
>>>>
>>>> I would expect that there are some standard algorithms out there for
>>>> doing this.  End truncation is likely to be the default choice, but I think
>>>> we need both.
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:39 AM, Andres Galante <agalante at redhat.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Liz,
>>>>>
>>>>> That's great information, this is the first time I heard about
>>>>> truncation in the middle of the word.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am sure that middle of the string truncation can be done with
>>>>> javascript, but CSS only allows to do it at the end of it. I'd say that
>>>>> unless there is a really good reason to do it in the middle lets try to
>>>>> avoid JS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrés
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Matt Carrano <mcarrano at redhat.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is great, Liz.  I think that your proposed text will add a lot
>>>>>> of clarity to the choice between these two methods.  Will look forward to
>>>>>> seeing some examples of truncated names and we can evaluate further.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Liz Blanchard <lsurette at redhat.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been thinking about truncation a bit and was looking into some
>>>>>>> UX standards on the topic. It's all very much in line with the examples
>>>>>>> that Greg and Ju have given. What do you all think about extending the
>>>>>>> PatternFly "Truncation" section on the Terminology and Wording page [1] to
>>>>>>> include something like the following...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *"Using an ellipsis to truncate a long string is recommended. There
>>>>>>>> are two different methods that could be applied. One is to truncate at the
>>>>>>>> end of the string "abcdef..." and the other would be to truncate in the
>>>>>>>> middle of the string "abc...ghi".Choose the method on the basis of whether
>>>>>>>> text at the end or in the middle of the string is more likely to
>>>>>>>> differentiate the item. This would be dependent on the domain.On a property
>>>>>>>> website, for instance, an address string will usually end 'Road' or
>>>>>>>> 'Street'. So the form 'abc...def' won't be much use as the final characters
>>>>>>>> will almost always be 'oad' or 'eet', neither of which help the user.If the
>>>>>>>> answer is not clear, default to the 'abcdef...' form over 'abc...ghi'.
>>>>>>>> Partial words will most likely be easier to guess from the initial
>>>>>>>> characters than the end ones. 'Openi...' is much more recognizable than
>>>>>>>> '...ening', for example."*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd also like to add in a statement where we suggest the use of the
>>>>>>> tool tip on hover to view the entire string.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm working on some specific use cases with the Storage product and
>>>>>>> we definitely are seeing the need for both methods. More commonly, we will
>>>>>>> be using method 1 for things like Cluster Name and Pool Name, but we are
>>>>>>> considering method two for things like Hostname where the end characters
>>>>>>> are important in differentiating the items in the list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any further thoughts on this?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>> Liz
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] http://www.patternfly.org/styles/terminology-and-wording/#_
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 8:12 PM, Andres Galante <agalante at redhat.com
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Matt, we definitely need guides around truncation, not only on
>>>>>>>> server names but in general.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's always a grey area how and when to truncate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If working on Tendrl you can come up with some refomendations we
>>>>>>>> can apply them to our patterns.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let me know if I can help in any way, we can test things up in
>>>>>>>> different use cases to see if it works
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Monday, 10 October 2016, Ju Lim <julim at redhat.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This generally works for most names except I've found in certain
>>>>>>>>> contexts from previous experience that truncating in the front made more
>>>>>>>>> sense, e.g. "...xyz" for MAC Addresses and SAN nicknames as it was less
>>>>>>>>> useful doing it as "xyz..." since the beginning portion was repeated a lot
>>>>>>>>> and didn't help so much with uniquely identifying the object.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> An interesting consideration is if there is a need for truncation
>>>>>>>>> of an IPv6 addresses, how do we tackle this.  I know IPv6 already includes
>>>>>>>>> truncation in the spec, but there are going to be circumstances where we
>>>>>>>>> may need to go beyond this.  Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Ju
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Greg Sheremeta <
>>>>>>>>> gshereme at redhat.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Matt / all,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This gets tricky when you have machine names in your listings!
>>>>>>>>>> my_super_important_vm_1
>>>>>>>>>> my_super_important_vm_2
>>>>>>>>>> his_super_important_vm_1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ^ Either way you truncate that "column", someone's going to lose
>>>>>>>>>> some important info, and looking through the column will be frustrating for
>>>>>>>>>> the users.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In oVirt, we take the simple approach and truncate at the end.
>>>>>>>>>> And, in most places where there is truncation, hovering over the truncated
>>>>>>>>>> string shows you (via tooltip) the entire string:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <Selection_115.png>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My recommendation for PatternFly: recommend / default to end
>>>>>>>>>> truncation with "...". I like the hover-show-full-name feature -- that's
>>>>>>>>>> something UX people should discuss re: if it should exist and what it would
>>>>>>>>>> look like. (We use PF tooltips, but I could see other widgets being useful.)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Matt Carrano <mcarrano at redhat.com
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Patternflyers,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am currently working on the Tendrl storage console project and
>>>>>>>>>>> need to come up with some guidance on how to truncate long names that may
>>>>>>>>>>> appear in our UI.  I'm thinking of things like hostnames, disk names, and
>>>>>>>>>>> other types of objects that may take on a potentially long path name based
>>>>>>>>>>> on user naming.  PatternFly currently provides some general guidance, but
>>>>>>>>>>> no specific rules.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm curious how you are handling this on other projects as I
>>>>>>>>>>> know it's a common problem.  Do you truncate in the middle of the string,
>>>>>>>>>>> the end of the string, or have another method?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Any advice or examples will be welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Carrano
>>>>>>>>>>> Sr. Interaction Designer
>>>>>>>>>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>> mcarrano at redhat.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Patternfly mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Patternfly at redhat.com
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Greg Sheremeta, MBA
>>>>>>>>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>> Sr. Software Engineer
>>>>>>>>>> gshereme at redhat.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Patternfly mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Patternfly at redhat.com
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Ju Lim
>>>>>>>>> Red Hat
>>>>>>>>> Office: 978-399-0422
>>>>>>>>> Mobile: 781-507-1323
>>>>>>>>> Email: julim at redhat.com
>>>>>>>>> IRC: julim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Patternfly mailing list
>>>>>>>> Patternfly at redhat.com
>>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Patternfly mailing list
>>>>>>> Patternfly at redhat.com
>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Matt Carrano
>>>>>> Sr. Interaction Designer
>>>>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>>>>> mcarrano at redhat.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Matt Carrano
>>>> Sr. Interaction Designer
>>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>>> mcarrano at redhat.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Patternfly mailing list
>>>> Patternfly at redhat.com
>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Patternfly mailing list
>>> Patternfly at redhat.com
>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>
>>>
>>> Gabriel Cardoso
>>> UX designer @ Red Hat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Patternfly mailing list
>>> Patternfly at redhat.com
>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>
>>>
>>
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>
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