[PatternFly] Browser support update

Tue May 22 21:09:58 UTC 2018

I don't think there are pollyfills for css variables the way we are using
them or grids. But we can look into that.

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Stan Silvert <ssilvert at redhat.com> wrote:

> On 5/22/2018 4:23 PM, Andres Galante wrote:
>
> Leslie has been meeting with different team to take this decisions based
> on their requirements and roadmaps. She is on vacation this week so we can
> probably continue this discussing next week.
>
> Here is my reasoning:
>
> IE11 is a burden, not only because we can't use css variables and grid
> among other modern CSS features but also because it increases the time of
> development to write fallbacks and testing and it makes the codebase harder
> to maintain.
>
> Patternfly next beta will out during the next 6 month-ish and a stable
> version probably by the end of the year or beginning of the next. By the
> time we have a stable version and projects start adopting it, it's a safe
> assumption that IE11 will be irrelevant.
>
> Does it make sense?
>
> I think your reasoning makes perfect sense.
>
> On the other hand, we can't just ignore 2% to 7% of our user base.  Even
> if IE11 is down to 1% of the market, we will still need a solution.   If 1
> out of 100 users can't use your web site then you are in trouble.
>
> If there is an effective pollyfill available then I think that would be
> good enough for us.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 5:01 PM, Stan Silvert <ssilvert at redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> Maybe we can load a polyfill when we detect IE11?
>>
>> Would this work for all the new features you plan to use Andres?
>>
>>
>> On 5/22/2018 3:31 PM, Stian Thorgersen wrote:
>>
>> On keycloak.org we have ~5% on IE11 this year. Of IE users 95% of our
>> users are on IE11.
>>
>> Looking at https://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php there's 2.81% for
>> IE11. On http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide
>> it says 7.17%, which I assume is mostly IE11. They don't give details on
>> individual versions as far as I can see.
>>
>> From my understanding there's still a lot of folks on Windows XP in the
>> world and a good proportion has not updated to Edge. I remember how long it
>> took to get rid of IE6.
>>
>> For RH-SSO and Keycloak we have login pages as well as the account
>> management console that both should be available to most users. Available
>> is subjective of course, but if there's CSS variables used which is not
>> supported at all on IE11 I would assume it would look very bad on IE11?
>>
>> On 22 May 2018 at 21:05, Andres Galante <agalante at redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Stian,
>>>
>>> How much of that IE traffic is IE11?
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Stian Thorgersen <sthorger at redhat.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> According to http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/wo
>>>> rldwide
>>>>
>>>> IE11 is still more popular than Edge.
>>>>
>>>> I get the same numbers from keycloak.org.
>>>>
>>>> On 22 May 2018 at 20:07, Stian Thorgersen <sthorger at redhat.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is the world really ready to move on from IE11? For admin facing apps
>>>>> I don't see it as a problem, but what about end-user facing apps?
>>>>>
>>>>> On 18 May 2018 at 10:53, Guillaume Vincent <gvincent at redhat.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> this is a good news, thank you patternfly !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 1:22 PM, Andres Galante <agalante at redhat.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Stan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes! it means we'll go back to use CSS variables following the same 2
>>>>>>> tier variable system
>>>>>>> <https://css-tricks.com/theming-with-variables-globals-and-locals/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We'll also be able to use CSS grids to build layouts :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:14 AM, Stan Silvert <ssilvert at redhat.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm quite happy to ditch IE11.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does that mean PatternFly Next will use CSS variables instead of
>>>>>>>> preprocessor variables?  Eliminating the preprocessor will make me double
>>>>>>>> happy!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For our app we want to allow an administrator to do simple theme
>>>>>>>> changes from the admin console.  This gets really easy to implement if the
>>>>>>>> app doesn't need preprocessing.  If we have to use a preprocessor then it
>>>>>>>> becomes extremely complicated.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/16/2018 4:55 PM, Leslie Hinson wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey Fliers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At the last PatternFly Next update, the topic of IE11 browser
>>>>>>>> support came up. Specifically, the question on whether or not we needed to
>>>>>>>> support it moving forward.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As a result, we wanted to follow up to ensure we understood
>>>>>>>> PatternFly users' browser support roadmap. From what we've been able to
>>>>>>>> gather, we learned that the majority of PatternFly users that are
>>>>>>>> interested in migrating to PatternFly-Next are comfortable proceeding
>>>>>>>> without IE11 support moving forward. We will continue to have PF3 for any
>>>>>>>> users that still require that level of support, however we don't believe
>>>>>>>> that IE11 support is worth the cost for this next major version.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks to everyone that raised this concern as well as those that
>>>>>>>> provided input to help us make this decision.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Leslie Hinson
>>>>>>>> PatternFly Lead, UXD
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> PatternFly mailing listPatternFly at redhat.comhttps://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> PatternFly mailing list
>>>>>>>> PatternFly at redhat.com
>>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> PatternFly mailing list
>>>>>>> PatternFly at redhat.com
>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Guillaume  Vincent
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Senior FrontEnd Engineer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> gvincent at redhat.com
>>>>>> <https://red.ht/sig>
>>>>>> TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED. <https://redhat.com/trusted>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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