[PatternFly] Browser support update
Stan Silvert
ssilvert at redhat.com
Tue May 22 20:40:02 UTC 2018
On 5/22/2018 4:23 PM, Andres Galante wrote:
> Leslie has been meeting with different team to take this decisions
> based on their requirements and roadmaps. She is on vacation this week
> so we can probably continue this discussing next week.
>
> Here is my reasoning:
>
> IE11 is a burden, not only because we can't use css variables and grid
> among other modern CSS features but also because it increases the time
> of development to write fallbacks and testing and it makes the
> codebase harder to maintain.
>
> Patternfly next beta will out during the next 6 month-ish and a stable
> version probably by the end of the year or beginning of the next. By
> the time we have a stable version and projects start adopting it, it's
> a safe assumption that IE11 will be irrelevant.
>
> Does it make sense?
I think your reasoning makes perfect sense.
On the other hand, we can't just ignore 2% to 7% of our user base. Even
if IE11 is down to 1% of the market, we will still need a solution. If
1 out of 100 users can't use your web site then you are in trouble.
If there is an effective pollyfill available then I think that would be
good enough for us.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 5:01 PM, Stan Silvert <ssilvert at redhat.com
> <mailto:ssilvert at redhat.com>> wrote:
>
> Maybe we can load a polyfill when we detect IE11?
>
> Would this work for all the new features you plan to use Andres?
>
>
> On 5/22/2018 3:31 PM, Stian Thorgersen wrote:
>> On keycloak.org <http://keycloak.org> we have ~5% on IE11 this
>> year. Of IE users 95% of our users are on IE11.
>>
>> Looking at https://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
>> <https://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php> there's 2.81% for
>> IE11. On
>> http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide
>> <http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide>
>> it says 7.17%, which I assume is mostly IE11. They don't give
>> details on individual versions as far as I can see.
>>
>> From my understanding there's still a lot of folks on Windows XP
>> in the world and a good proportion has not updated to Edge. I
>> remember how long it took to get rid of IE6.
>>
>> For RH-SSO and Keycloak we have login pages as well as the
>> account management console that both should be available to most
>> users. Available is subjective of course, but if there's CSS
>> variables used which is not supported at all on IE11 I would
>> assume it would look very bad on IE11?
>>
>> On 22 May 2018 at 21:05, Andres Galante <agalante at redhat.com
>> <mailto:agalante at redhat.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Stian,
>>
>> How much of that IE traffic is IE11?
>>
>> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Stian Thorgersen
>> <sthorger at redhat.com <mailto:sthorger at redhat.com>> wrote:
>>
>> According to
>> http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide
>> <http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide>
>>
>>
>> IE11 is still more popular than Edge.
>>
>> I get the same numbers from keycloak.org
>> <http://keycloak.org>.
>>
>> On 22 May 2018 at 20:07, Stian Thorgersen
>> <sthorger at redhat.com <mailto:sthorger at redhat.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Is the world really ready to move on from IE11? For
>> admin facing apps I don't see it as a problem, but
>> what about end-user facing apps?
>>
>> On 18 May 2018 at 10:53, Guillaume Vincent
>> <gvincent at redhat.com <mailto:gvincent at redhat.com>> wrote:
>>
>> this is a good news, thank you patternfly !
>>
>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 1:22 PM, Andres Galante
>> <agalante at redhat.com
>> <mailto:agalante at redhat.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Stan,
>>
>> Yes! it means we'll go back to use CSS
>> variables following the same 2 tier variable
>> system
>> <https://css-tricks.com/theming-with-variables-globals-and-locals/>
>>
>>
>> We'll also be able to use CSS grids to build
>> layouts :)
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:14 AM, Stan Silvert
>> <ssilvert at redhat.com
>> <mailto:ssilvert at redhat.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm quite happy to ditch IE11.
>>
>> Does that mean PatternFly Next will use
>> CSS variables instead of preprocessor
>> variables? Eliminating the preprocessor
>> will make me double happy!
>>
>> For our app we want to allow an
>> administrator to do simple theme changes
>> from the admin console. This gets really
>> easy to implement if the app doesn't need
>> preprocessing. If we have to use a
>> preprocessor then it becomes extremely
>> complicated.
>>
>> Stan
>>
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 4:55 PM, Leslie Hinson wrote:
>>> Hey Fliers
>>>
>>> At the last PatternFly Next update, the
>>> topic of IE11 browser support came up.
>>> Specifically, the question on whether or
>>> not we needed to support it moving forward.
>>>
>>> As a result, we wanted to follow up to
>>> ensure we understood PatternFly users'
>>> browser support roadmap. From what we've
>>> been able to gather, we learned that the
>>> majority of PatternFly users that are
>>> interested in migrating to
>>> PatternFly-Next are comfortable
>>> proceeding without IE11 support moving
>>> forward. We will continue to have PF3
>>> for any users that still require that
>>> level of support, however we don't
>>> believe that IE11 support is worth the
>>> cost for this next major version.
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone that raised this
>>> concern as well as those that provided
>>> input to help us make this decision.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Leslie Hinson
>>> PatternFly Lead, UXD
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> <mailto:PatternFly at redhat.com>
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>>> <https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Guillaume Vincent
>>
>> Senior FrontEnd Engineer
>>
>> gvincent at redhat.com <mailto:gvincent at redhat.com>
>>
>> <https://red.ht/sig>
>> TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED. <https://redhat.com/trusted>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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