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RE: Commentary on the seven words



Not to belabor it (but it's probably too late for that)

When I was an operating systems programmer (years ago, 16 bit mini's - in assembler) we all too often forgot that the Operating system existed to support the application, not the other way around.

Q: Why would you want to do that?

A (1) Because the application software we use is licensed Per Seat and there is no discount or migration discount between {existing_platform} and the {new_platform} and so it would cost my company close to a quarter million dollars to migrate .. and THAT is why I want for FIX this problem in my system rather than upgrade to a system that doesn't have this problem. (this was hypothetical)

A (2) Because the application that we run uses a telnet client that doesn't support ssh - and that's why I can't run ssh on this system. (this was hypothetical)

A (3) Because the application ........   (that's the key phrase)

When I tell someone that I need to get from the 10th floor to the 1st floor and I ask where the window is, he doesn't always do me a favor by assuming that I'm going to jump. I'm going to lower a rope to my counterpart on the ground floor and then after securing it, I'll repel down -- JUST AS I HAVE BEEN TRAINED TO DO FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS. By saying "yanno, we have elevators over there and stairs over here, but the window is down that way ..." he helps me.

But when you try to steer me away from the window, you're hindering my ability to do my job. I have a wife, two kids, a boss and an idiot assistant that already do a nice job of THAT, thank you very much.

Think of it this way: I know everyone means well and the help is ALWAYS appreciated, but in a way it's kind of degrading to have to explain WHY I want what I want in order to get that help. Sometimes it seems like I can't get the help I need (where are the windows, please?) until I can get them to approve the fact that I need it.

And anyway .. it was JUST a comment.

Which reminds me: Years ago, as an assembly language programmer for 16 bit Mini's, we used to have a saying "We don't program in C, Forth, Lisp, ADA or any other sissy-assed computer science language! We program right down at the bare metal, in assembler .. and no, we don't document any of it!"



At 02:59 PM 8/25/2006, you wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV. Hungs.
      (Avi Ma'ayan)
   2. RE: 200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV. Hungs.
      (Marc Wiatrowski)
   3. Re: Permit root login for telnet.. (Steve Rieger)
   4. Where the heck is mailx (Mark Haney)
   5. Re: Where the heck is mailx (Wayne Pinette)
   6. Re: Where the heck is mailx (alan)
   7. Re: Where the heck is mailx (inode0)
   8. Commentary on the seven words (darrel barton)
   9. Re: Where the heck is mailx (Mark Haney)
  10. Re: Where the heck is mailx (inode0)
  11. RE: Commentary on the seven words (Burke, Thomas G.)
  12. Re: Where the heck is mailx (Mark Haney)
  13. RE: Commentary on the seven words (Marc Wiatrowski)
  14. RE: Commentary on the seven words (Burke, Thomas G.)
  15. RE: Commentary on the seven words (Bliss, Aaron)
  16. RE: Commentary on the seven words (Burke, Thomas G.)
  17. RE: Permit root login for telnet.. (Shekhar Dhotre)
  18. RE: Permit root login for telnet.. (Burke, Thomas G.)
  19. NFS server not responding (Ryan Golhar)
  20. Re: NFS server not responding (Jeremy Lyon)
  21. Re: Commentary on the seven words (Greg Golin)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:00:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Avi Ma'ayan" <avi_maayan yahoo com>
Subject: Re: 200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV. Hungs.
To: "Bliss, Aaron" <ABliss preferredcare org>,  General Red Hat Linux
        discussion list <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <20060825160048 84188 qmail web30211 mail mud yahoo com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Thanks Aaron,

sftp works.

avi

----- Original Message ----
From: "Bliss, Aaron" <ABliss preferredcare org>
To: Avi Ma'ayan <avi_maayan yahoo com>; General Red Hat Linux discussion list <redhat-list redhat com>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 11:48:55 AM
Subject: RE: 200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV. Hungs.


I'm not exactly sure why your seeing what your seeing, but have you
considered using scp or sftp instead of ftp?

-----Original Message-----
From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
[mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Avi Ma'ayan
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 11:48 AM
To: redhat-list redhat com
Subject: 200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV. Hungs.

Hi,

I am trying to tranfer a file from my desktop to a RedHat server using
FTP. It used to work yesterday but today it just hungs after ftp>put
file with this message: "200 PORT command successful. Consider using
PASV." The file is create at the server but it is empty. I can do other
ftp command such as "cd" which work fine. Any ideas? What might have
broken, I haven't changed any setting? Could it be something with the
network?

Thanks for your help.

avi maayan

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:06:44 -0400
From: "Marc Wiatrowski" <wia iglass net>
Subject: RE: 200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV. Hungs.
To: "'General Red Hat Linux discussion list'" <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <001501c6c860$762d8c70$6bb1a8c0 istructure com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Avi Ma'ayan
> Subject: 200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV. Hungs.
>
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to tranfer a file from my desktop to a RedHat
> server using FTP. It used to work yesterday but today it just
> hungs after ftp>put file with this message: "200 PORT command
> successful. Consider using PASV." The file is create at the
> server but it is empty. I can do other ftp command such as
> "cd" which work fine. Any ideas? What might have broken, I
> haven't changed any setting? Could it be something with the network?
>

Any new firewall around your ftp server?  port 20 point to it as well
as 21?

marc




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:15:02 -0700
From: Steve Rieger <riegersteve gmail com>
Subject: Re: Permit root login for telnet..
To: General Red Hat Linux discussion list <redhat-list redhat com>
Cc: "Bliss, Aaron" <ABliss preferredcare org>
Message-ID: <44EF3016 80307 gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

i would like to know what bank you work for, am gonna make sure to close
any account i have there.



sorry for the top post.


Shekhar Dhotre wrote:
> OK , no one has access to network room here than Coms guys . Even I
> cannot go in as I am in Unix/Storages group. Our comm. guys are not
> interested in checking our passwords.
>
> Also they have access to most of the prod switches, so they are trusted
> by the business. Again not a risk .
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bliss, Aaron [mailto:ABliss preferredcare org]
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:44 AM
> To: Shekhar Dhotre; General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> Sure, just turn on ethereal, plug into the span port on the switch.
> Very straight forward; there are even software based packet sniffers
> than can sniff past switches.
>
> Aaron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shekhar Dhotre [mailto:sdhotre Cedardoc com]
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:25 AM
> To: Bliss, Aaron; General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> Again that's all good . But, can you tell me how to see password of
> other sysadmin if he is accessing system via telnet?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bliss, Aaron [mailto:ABliss preferredcare org]
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:22 AM
> To: Bliss, Aaron; Shekhar Dhotre; General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> Telnet is also vulnerable to man in the middle attacks and ssh offers
> post authentication; telnet does not.
>
> Aaron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
> [mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Bliss, Aaron
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:13 AM
> To: Shekhar Dhotre; General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> Telent is a clear text protocol; ssh isn't.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
> [mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Shekhar Dhotre
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:11 AM
> To: General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> I have used telnet before ssh came in to the market . Do you know how to
> hack telnet ? or break a root password without having physical access to
> the system ? most likely the answer will be - NO .. so what's the big
> deal in ssh vs. telnet ?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
> [mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Greg Golin
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:12 AM
> To: General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: Re: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> Dear Arun,
>
> You do NOT want to enable root login via telnet - trust me on this
> one. Please tell the list what you are trying to accomplish - 99.9%
> chance is that whatever you are trying to do can, and should be done
> via ssh.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Gregory Golin
> Systems Admin
>
> On 8/24/06, Arun Williams <perks_williams yahoo co in> wrote:
>
>> How can i enable root login for telnet....
>>
>>   I tried editing /etc/pam.d/login .... but no use
>>
>>
>> ____________________________
>> Regards
>> A.Williams
>> IN THIS WORLD FULL OF DREAMS AND IMAGINATION, LOOK FOR
>>
> POSSIBILITIES...
>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>>  Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers
>>  Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version
>>
> 8. Get it NOW
>
>> --
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>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
>>
>>
>
>


--
--
eats the blues for breakfast,
does unix for rent,
plays harp for food,
will play the flute for kicks
rides for the freedom
scrapes for thechallenge



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:31:23 -0400
From: "Mark Haney" <mhaney ercbroadband org>
Subject: Where the heck is mailx
To: "General Red Hat Linux discussion list" <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <44EF33EB 4050703 ercbroadband org>
Content-Type: text/plain;       format=flowed;  charset="ISO-8859-1"

I'm running RHEL3 on a server and I'm trying to find the mailx binary.
The RPM db says it's installed (and the latest one I could find), but I
cannot find mailx anywhere.  I have a script that I want to be able to
mail certain data to myself and I've always used mailx for things like
that.  Did I miss something?

--
Ceterum censeo, Carthago delenda est.

Mark Haney
Sr. Systems Administrator
ERC Broadband
(828) 350-2415



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:43:43 -0700
From: "Wayne Pinette" <Wpinette tru ca>
Subject: Re: Where the heck is mailx
To: <mhaney ercbroadband org>, <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <s4eed47e 027 Groupwise3 TRU CA>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

if the mailx rpm is installed, you should be able to do a rpm -q -l
mailx  (or whatever the rpm is listed under) and that will tell you all
the files that were installed and their locations.

Wayner


>>> mhaney ercbroadband org 08/25/06 10:31 am >>>
I'm running RHEL3 on a server and I'm trying to find the mailx binary.

The RPM db says it's installed (and the latest one I could find), but I

cannot find mailx anywhere.  I have a script that I want to be able to

mail certain data to myself and I've always used mailx for things like

that.  Did I miss something?

--
Ceterum censeo, Carthago delenda est.

Mark Haney
Sr. Systems Administrator
ERC Broadband
(828) 350-2415

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unsubscribe mailto:redhat-list-request redhat com?subject=unsubscribe
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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: alan <alan clueserver org>
Subject: Re: Where the heck is mailx
To: General Red Hat Linux discussion list <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <Pine LNX 4 64 0608251044160 9932 blackbox fnordora org>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Mark Haney wrote:

> I'm running RHEL3 on a server and I'm trying to find the mailx binary. The
> RPM db says it's installed (and the latest one I could find), but I cannot
> find mailx anywhere. I have a script that I want to be able to mail certain > data to myself and I've always used mailx for things like that. Did I miss
> something?

rpm -qp --filesbypkg mailx | less

--
"Oh, Joel Miller, you've just found the marble in the oatmeal. You're a
lucky, lucky, lucky little boy. 'Cause you know why? You get to drink
from... the FIRE HOOOOOSE!"
         - The Stanley Spudoski guide to mailing list administration



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:57:31 -0500
From: inode0 <inode0 gmail com>
Subject: Re: Where the heck is mailx
To: "General Red Hat Linux discussion list" <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
        <e8a30f560608251057g46e4cfat4065729390f19a0e mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 8/25/06, Mark Haney <mhaney ercbroadband org> wrote:
> I'm running RHEL3 on a server and I'm trying to find the mailx binary.
> The RPM db says it's installed (and the latest one I could find), but I
> cannot find mailx anywhere.  I have a script that I want to be able to
> mail certain data to myself and I've always used mailx for things like
> that.  Did I miss something?

On RHEL4 it is in redhat-lsb but it doesn't appear to be there on
RHEL3. I believe it is just a symlink to the mail command in any
event.

Out of curiosity, what rpm command did you run that suggests it is
installed? Perhaps that will clear things up...

John



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:10:33 -0700
From: darrel barton <darrel lantera com>
Subject: Commentary on the seven words
To: redhat-list redhat com
Message-ID: <6 2 0 14 2 20060825104205 03265f30 207 155 48 221>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


As a programmer, I routinely turn to guru's for support -- especially for
operating system and utility advice and assistance and there are SEVEN
words -- seven very unwelcome words that I hear from time to time that
drive me up the wall.   Not George Carlin's 7 words but another set:

Why Do You Want To Do That?

I don't want to seem like I'm attacking anyone here, because I know that
almost everyone means well and help, whether it's what we intend or not --
is still help.  But there is a danger too.   When someone writes to say

200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV. Hangs.

and the response he gets is "try sftp" there seem to be a hugely missing
ingredient:   All we did was give the man a work around to a problem.  Even
if there are 400 alternatives ... FTP is SUPPOSED to work and someone
should CARE that it doesn't.   Well, sftp helped him and he's on his way
and that's great.   The only problem is that, in this case, 'sftp' was
merely a workaround to a problem and if people aren't careful, Linux will
become wat the original AT&T Unix was -- and that is to say nothing more
that a PILE of workarounds.

I wrote in with a complaint that Linux will allow a process (like Tar,
Cpio, DD, etc) to create archives larger than that same system can read
back.   Think of it as that elusive Write Only Memory we're all heard
about.   Several people contacted me and told me all about Gzip and how to
make the archive smaller and other people said it wasn't Linux' fault it
was the file's fault and etc., etc., and etc.   I wonder if these same
people would be so forgiving of a workaround if the problem was that Linux
would allow a process to write to disc blocks in excess of the number of
physical blocks without reporting errors?

There is a guy that wants to be able to log in to ROOT via Telnet and
people write back telling him that he doesn't want to even do that.   Well
guess what?   I administrate one system that has 128 clients on it and it's
NOT EVEN CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET.   Or .. Intranet.   One server, 128
thin clients.   Why can't I log on to Root from one of those clients if I
want to without the 262 additional levels of complication that ssh
provides?   (OK -- I know that YOU have never ever EVER had a problem with
ssh.  Nor anyone you've ever known.  And every ssh client you have ever
seen works seamlessly with every ssh server that's ever been written .. but
trust me, out there ... once ... back in 1986 .. there WAS a guy who had
ssh problems.

So when a guy writes to ask about how to enable root login from telnet,
can't someone just say "I hope you know that's not as secure as ssh -- but
here's how you enable that ...... ?

Please just remember that some of us here have been slogging through this
stuff for the last 20 years, trying to get an application to run, a
documented operating system function to actually function -- and
occasionally get enough things working that a client actually PAYS
us.   We're not always here to hear about the way we coulda, shoulda,
woulda restructured the whole process around stuff that some of you guys
only invented last week, ok?

"Why Do You Want To Do That?"

Would be a more fair question if someone needed that answer in order to
better understand the request -- but far too often it's not that -- it's
the beginning of someone telling me how THEY think I should be doing my job.

So please, folks, the next time we want to do something differently that
you think you'd do it if you were in our shoes ... cut us some slack and
just help us out, OK?  We'd do the same for you.








-------------- next part --------------


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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:01:00 -0400
From: "Mark Haney" <mhaney ercbroadband org>
Subject: Re: Where the heck is mailx
To: "General Red Hat Linux discussion list" <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <44EF3ADC 1030301 ercbroadband org>
Content-Type: text/plain;       format=flowed;  charset="ISO-8859-1"

inode0 wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity, what rpm command did you run that suggests it is
> installed? Perhaps that will clear things up...
>
> John
>
Yeah I missed something.  Apparently, mailx is just a symlink to mail.
But this doesn't really fix the problem I'm having now, which is my
script doesn't run as mail requires a CTRL+D in order to send the
message.  How do I get around that?


--
Ceterum censeo, Carthago delenda est.

Mark Haney
Sr. Systems Administrator
ERC Broadband
(828) 350-2415



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:07:43 -0500
From: inode0 <inode0 gmail com>
Subject: Re: Where the heck is mailx
To: "General Red Hat Linux discussion list" <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
        <e8a30f560608251107y78e441f6s7637807e628c05bb mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 8/25/06, Mark Haney <mhaney ercbroadband org> wrote:
> inode0 wrote:
> >
> > Out of curiosity, what rpm command did you run that suggests it is
> > installed? Perhaps that will clear things up...
> >
> > John
> >
> Yeah I missed something.  Apparently, mailx is just a symlink to mail.
> But this doesn't really fix the problem I'm having now, which is my
> script doesn't run as mail requires a CTRL+D in order to send the
> message.  How do I get around that?

I usually do something like

mail -s subject foo bar com < some-file

or

echo "text to mail" | mail -s subject foo bar com

John



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:16:26 -0400
From: "Burke, Thomas G." <tg burke ngc com>
Subject: RE: Commentary on the seven words
To: "General Red Hat Linux discussion list" <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
        <CBFD6AB08691C048B78837436917EE1B0205DF7A XMBMD104 northgrum com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Ditto...  But...  WDYWTDT?

;)

-----Original Message-----
From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
[mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of darrel barton
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:11 PM
To: redhat-list redhat com
Subject: Commentary on the seven words


As a programmer, I routinely turn to guru's for support -- especially
for operating system and utility advice and assistance and there are
SEVEN words -- seven very unwelcome words that I hear from time to time
that
drive me up the wall.   Not George Carlin's 7 words but another set:

Why Do You Want To Do That?

I don't want to seem like I'm attacking anyone here, because I know that
almost everyone means well and help, whether it's what we intend or not
--
is still help.  But there is a danger too.   When someone writes to say

200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV. Hangs.

and the response he gets is "try sftp" there seem to be a hugely missing

ingredient:   All we did was give the man a work around to a problem.
Even
if there are 400 alternatives ... FTP is SUPPOSED to work and someone
should CARE that it doesn't.   Well, sftp helped him and he's on his way

and that's great.   The only problem is that, in this case, 'sftp' was
merely a workaround to a problem and if people aren't careful, Linux
will become wat the original AT&T Unix was -- and that is to say nothing
more that a PILE of workarounds.

I wrote in with a complaint that Linux will allow a process (like Tar,
Cpio, DD, etc) to create archives larger than that same system can read
back.   Think of it as that elusive Write Only Memory we're all heard
about.   Several people contacted me and told me all about Gzip and how
to
make the archive smaller and other people said it wasn't Linux' fault it

was the file's fault and etc., etc., and etc.   I wonder if these same
people would be so forgiving of a workaround if the problem was that
Linux would allow a process to write to disc blocks in excess of the
number of physical blocks without reporting errors?

There is a guy that wants to be able to log in to ROOT via Telnet and
people write back telling him that he doesn't want to even do that.
Well
guess what?   I administrate one system that has 128 clients on it and
it's
NOT EVEN CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET.   Or .. Intranet.   One server, 128
thin clients.   Why can't I log on to Root from one of those clients if
I
want to without the 262 additional levels of complication that ssh
provides?   (OK -- I know that YOU have never ever EVER had a problem
with
ssh.  Nor anyone you've ever known.  And every ssh client you have ever
seen works seamlessly with every ssh server that's ever been written ..
but trust me, out there ... once ... back in 1986 .. there WAS a guy who
had ssh problems.

So when a guy writes to ask about how to enable root login from telnet,
can't someone just say "I hope you know that's not as secure as ssh --
but here's how you enable that ...... ?

Please just remember that some of us here have been slogging through
this stuff for the last 20 years, trying to get an application to run, a
documented operating system function to actually function -- and
occasionally get enough things working that a client actually PAYS
us.   We're not always here to hear about the way we coulda, shoulda,
woulda restructured the whole process around stuff that some of you guys
only invented last week, ok?

"Why Do You Want To Do That?"

Would be a more fair question if someone needed that answer in order to
better understand the request -- but far too often it's not that -- it's
the beginning of someone telling me how THEY think I should be doing my
job.

So please, folks, the next time we want to do something differently that
you think you'd do it if you were in our shoes ... cut us some slack and
just help us out, OK?  We'd do the same for you.











------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:16:48 -0400
From: "Mark Haney" <mhaney ercbroadband org>
Subject: Re: Where the heck is mailx
To: "General Red Hat Linux discussion list" <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <44EF3E90 7060703 ercbroadband org>
Content-Type: text/plain;       format=flowed;  charset="ISO-8859-1"

inode0 wrote:
> On 8/25/06, Mark Haney <mhaney ercbroadband org> wrote:
>> inode0 wrote:
>> >
>> > Out of curiosity, what rpm command did you run that suggests it is
>> > installed? Perhaps that will clear things up...
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> Yeah I missed something.  Apparently, mailx is just a symlink to mail.
>> But this doesn't really fix the problem I'm having now, which is my
>> script doesn't run as mail requires a CTRL+D in order to send the
>> message.  How do I get around that?
>
> I usually do something like
>
> mail -s subject foo bar com < some-file
>
> or
>
> echo "text to mail" | mail -s subject foo bar com
>
> John
>
Yep, that did it.  Thanks a bunch everyone.


--
Ceterum censeo, Carthago delenda est.

Mark Haney
Sr. Systems Administrator
ERC Broadband
(828) 350-2415



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:22:41 -0400
From: "Marc Wiatrowski" <wia iglass net>
Subject: RE: Commentary on the seven words
To: "'General Red Hat Linux discussion list'" <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <002c01c6c873$73b98490$6bb1a8c0 istructure com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"

When someone going down a dead end road stops and asks for
directions, do you explain the correct route or help him
make a new road the way he is headed?

marc

> -----Original Message-----
> From: darrel barton
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:11 PM
> To: redhat-list redhat com
> Subject: Commentary on the seven words
>
>
> As a programmer, I routinely turn to guru's for support --
> especially for
> operating system and utility advice and assistance and there
> are SEVEN
> words -- seven very unwelcome words that I hear from time to
> time that
> drive me up the wall.   Not George Carlin's 7 words but another set:
>
> Why Do You Want To Do That?
>
> I don't want to seem like I'm attacking anyone here, because
> I know that
> almost everyone means well and help, whether it's what we
> intend or not --
> is still help.  But there is a danger too.   When someone
> writes to say
>
> 200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV. Hangs.
>
> and the response he gets is "try sftp" there seem to be a
> hugely missing
> ingredient:   All we did was give the man a work around to a
> problem.  Even
> if there are 400 alternatives ... FTP is SUPPOSED to work and someone
> should CARE that it doesn't.   Well, sftp helped him and he's
> on his way
> and that's great.   The only problem is that, in this case,
> 'sftp' was
> merely a workaround to a problem and if people aren't
> careful, Linux will
> become wat the original AT&T Unix was -- and that is to say
> nothing more
> that a PILE of workarounds.
>
> I wrote in with a complaint that Linux will allow a process
> (like Tar,
> Cpio, DD, etc) to create archives larger than that same
> system can read
> back.   Think of it as that elusive Write Only Memory we're all heard
> about.   Several people contacted me and told me all about
> Gzip and how to
> make the archive smaller and other people said it wasn't
> Linux' fault it
> was the file's fault and etc., etc., and etc.   I wonder if
> these same
> people would be so forgiving of a workaround if the problem
> was that Linux
> would allow a process to write to disc blocks in excess of
> the number of
> physical blocks without reporting errors?
>
> There is a guy that wants to be able to log in to ROOT via Telnet and
> people write back telling him that he doesn't want to even do
> that.   Well
> guess what?   I administrate one system that has 128 clients
> on it and it's
> NOT EVEN CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET.   Or .. Intranet.   One
> server, 128
> thin clients.   Why can't I log on to Root from one of those
> clients if I
> want to without the 262 additional levels of complication that ssh
> provides?   (OK -- I know that YOU have never ever EVER had a
> problem with
> ssh.  Nor anyone you've ever known.  And every ssh client you
> have ever
> seen works seamlessly with every ssh server that's ever been
> written .. but
> trust me, out there ... once ... back in 1986 .. there WAS a
> guy who had
> ssh problems.
>
> So when a guy writes to ask about how to enable root login
> from telnet,
> can't someone just say "I hope you know that's not as secure
> as ssh -- but
> here's how you enable that ...... ?
>
> Please just remember that some of us here have been slogging
> through this
> stuff for the last 20 years, trying to get an application to run, a
> documented operating system function to actually function -- and
> occasionally get enough things working that a client actually PAYS
> us.   We're not always here to hear about the way we coulda, shoulda,
> woulda restructured the whole process around stuff that some
> of you guys
> only invented last week, ok?
>
> "Why Do You Want To Do That?"
>
> Would be a more fair question if someone needed that answer
> in order to
> better understand the request -- but far too often it's not
> that -- it's
> the beginning of someone telling me how THEY think I should
> be doing my job.
>
> So please, folks, the next time we want to do something
> differently that
> you think you'd do it if you were in our shoes ... cut us
> some slack and
> just help us out, OK?  We'd do the same for you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:25:40 -0400
From: "Burke, Thomas G." <tg burke ngc com>
Subject: RE: Commentary on the seven words
To: "General Red Hat Linux discussion list" <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
        <CBFD6AB08691C048B78837436917EE1B0205DF7F XMBMD104 northgrum com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

His point is, that maybe he's trying to build a bridge, not go around
the long way.

-----Original Message-----
From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
[mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Marc Wiatrowski
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:23 PM
To: 'General Red Hat Linux discussion list'
Subject: RE: Commentary on the seven words

When someone going down a dead end road stops and asks for directions,
do you explain the correct route or help him make a new road the way he
is headed?

marc

> -----Original Message-----
> From: darrel barton
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:11 PM
> To: redhat-list redhat com
> Subject: Commentary on the seven words
>
>
> As a programmer, I routinely turn to guru's for support -- especially
> for operating system and utility advice and assistance and there are
> SEVEN words -- seven very unwelcome words that I hear from time to
> time that
> drive me up the wall.   Not George Carlin's 7 words but another set:
>
> Why Do You Want To Do That?
>
> I don't want to seem like I'm attacking anyone here, because I know
> that almost everyone means well and help, whether it's what we intend
> or not --
> is still help.  But there is a danger too.   When someone
> writes to say
>
> 200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV. Hangs.
>
> and the response he gets is "try sftp" there seem to be a hugely
> missing
> ingredient:   All we did was give the man a work around to a
> problem.  Even
> if there are 400 alternatives ... FTP is SUPPOSED to work and someone
> should CARE that it doesn't.   Well, sftp helped him and he's
> on his way
> and that's great.   The only problem is that, in this case,
> 'sftp' was
> merely a workaround to a problem and if people aren't careful, Linux
> will become wat the original AT&T Unix was -- and that is to say
> nothing more that a PILE of workarounds.
>
> I wrote in with a complaint that Linux will allow a process (like Tar,

> Cpio, DD, etc) to create archives larger than that same system can
> read
> back.   Think of it as that elusive Write Only Memory we're all heard
> about.   Several people contacted me and told me all about
> Gzip and how to
> make the archive smaller and other people said it wasn't Linux' fault
> it
> was the file's fault and etc., etc., and etc.   I wonder if
> these same
> people would be so forgiving of a workaround if the problem was that
> Linux would allow a process to write to disc blocks in excess of the
> number of physical blocks without reporting errors?
>
> There is a guy that wants to be able to log in to ROOT via Telnet and
> people write back telling him that he doesn't want to even do
> that.   Well
> guess what?   I administrate one system that has 128 clients
> on it and it's
> NOT EVEN CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET.   Or .. Intranet.   One
> server, 128
> thin clients.   Why can't I log on to Root from one of those
> clients if I
> want to without the 262 additional levels of complication that ssh
> provides?   (OK -- I know that YOU have never ever EVER had a
> problem with
> ssh.  Nor anyone you've ever known.  And every ssh client you have
> ever seen works seamlessly with every ssh server that's ever been
> written .. but trust me, out there ... once ... back in 1986 .. there
> WAS a guy who had ssh problems.
>
> So when a guy writes to ask about how to enable root login from
> telnet, can't someone just say "I hope you know that's not as secure
> as ssh -- but here's how you enable that ...... ?
>
> Please just remember that some of us here have been slogging through
> this stuff for the last 20 years, trying to get an application to run,

> a documented operating system function to actually function -- and
> occasionally get enough things working that a client actually PAYS
> us.   We're not always here to hear about the way we coulda, shoulda,
> woulda restructured the whole process around stuff that some of you
> guys only invented last week, ok?
>
> "Why Do You Want To Do That?"
>
> Would be a more fair question if someone needed that answer in order
> to better understand the request -- but far too often it's not that --

> it's the beginning of someone telling me how THEY think I should be
> doing my job.
>
> So please, folks, the next time we want to do something differently
> that you think you'd do it if you were in our shoes ... cut us some
> slack and just help us out, OK?  We'd do the same for you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:27:21 -0400
From: "Bliss, Aaron" <ABliss preferredcare org>
Subject: RE: Commentary on the seven words
To: "Marc Wiatrowski" <wia iglass net>, "General Red Hat Linux
        discussion list" <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID:

<FFF3441ECA73784EAAAD9B8ABFB0CC2B02EE3979 ms-win-s21 preferredcare org>

Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes; I was just trying to help; I'm
sure some people will disagree, but it's generally a better security
practice not to use clear text protocols such as telnet or ftp whenever
possible, which why I recommend sftp and ssh...

-----Original Message-----
From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
[mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Marc Wiatrowski
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:23 PM
To: 'General Red Hat Linux discussion list'
Subject: RE: Commentary on the seven words

When someone going down a dead end road stops and asks for
directions, do you explain the correct route or help him
make a new road the way he is headed?

marc

> -----Original Message-----
> From: darrel barton
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:11 PM
> To: redhat-list redhat com
> Subject: Commentary on the seven words
>
>
> As a programmer, I routinely turn to guru's for support --
> especially for
> operating system and utility advice and assistance and there
> are SEVEN
> words -- seven very unwelcome words that I hear from time to
> time that
> drive me up the wall.   Not George Carlin's 7 words but another set:
>
> Why Do You Want To Do That?
>
> I don't want to seem like I'm attacking anyone here, because
> I know that
> almost everyone means well and help, whether it's what we
> intend or not --
> is still help.  But there is a danger too.   When someone
> writes to say
>
> 200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV. Hangs.
>
> and the response he gets is "try sftp" there seem to be a
> hugely missing
> ingredient:   All we did was give the man a work around to a
> problem.  Even
> if there are 400 alternatives ... FTP is SUPPOSED to work and someone
> should CARE that it doesn't.   Well, sftp helped him and he's
> on his way
> and that's great.   The only problem is that, in this case,
> 'sftp' was
> merely a workaround to a problem and if people aren't
> careful, Linux will
> become wat the original AT&T Unix was -- and that is to say
> nothing more
> that a PILE of workarounds.
>
> I wrote in with a complaint that Linux will allow a process
> (like Tar,
> Cpio, DD, etc) to create archives larger than that same
> system can read
> back.   Think of it as that elusive Write Only Memory we're all heard
> about.   Several people contacted me and told me all about
> Gzip and how to
> make the archive smaller and other people said it wasn't
> Linux' fault it
> was the file's fault and etc., etc., and etc.   I wonder if
> these same
> people would be so forgiving of a workaround if the problem
> was that Linux
> would allow a process to write to disc blocks in excess of
> the number of
> physical blocks without reporting errors?
>
> There is a guy that wants to be able to log in to ROOT via Telnet and
> people write back telling him that he doesn't want to even do
> that.   Well
> guess what?   I administrate one system that has 128 clients
> on it and it's
> NOT EVEN CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET.   Or .. Intranet.   One
> server, 128
> thin clients.   Why can't I log on to Root from one of those
> clients if I
> want to without the 262 additional levels of complication that ssh
> provides?   (OK -- I know that YOU have never ever EVER had a
> problem with
> ssh.  Nor anyone you've ever known.  And every ssh client you
> have ever
> seen works seamlessly with every ssh server that's ever been
> written .. but
> trust me, out there ... once ... back in 1986 .. there WAS a
> guy who had
> ssh problems.
>
> So when a guy writes to ask about how to enable root login
> from telnet,
> can't someone just say "I hope you know that's not as secure
> as ssh -- but
> here's how you enable that ...... ?
>
> Please just remember that some of us here have been slogging
> through this
> stuff for the last 20 years, trying to get an application to run, a
> documented operating system function to actually function -- and
> occasionally get enough things working that a client actually PAYS
> us.   We're not always here to hear about the way we coulda, shoulda,
> woulda restructured the whole process around stuff that some
> of you guys
> only invented last week, ok?
>
> "Why Do You Want To Do That?"
>
> Would be a more fair question if someone needed that answer
> in order to
> better understand the request -- but far too often it's not
> that -- it's
> the beginning of someone telling me how THEY think I should
> be doing my job.
>
> So please, folks, the next time we want to do something
> differently that
> you think you'd do it if you were in our shoes ... cut us
> some slack and
> just help us out, OK?  We'd do the same for you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Confidentiality Notice:
The information contained in this electronic message is intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity named above and may contain privileged or confidential information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that dissemination, distribution or copying of this information is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and destroy the copies you received.




------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:36:00 -0400
From: "Burke, Thomas G." <tg burke ngc com>
Subject: RE: Commentary on the seven words
To: "General Red Hat Linux discussion list" <redhat-list redhat com>,
        "Marc Wiatrowski" <wia iglass net>
Message-ID:
        <CBFD6AB08691C048B78837436917EE1B0205DF87 XMBMD104 northgrum com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

And this would have been a good way to preface a message on how to turn
on root access to telnet.

Shoot, I use SSH & all that, but if I wanted to allow it for some
reason, I'd ask (especially since I've been using ssh so long I don't
remember how) - but I can think of reasons why I'd maybe want to do this
- but only from within a firewalled area, or something completely
disconnected from the outside world.

-----Original Message-----
From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
[mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Bliss, Aaron
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:27 PM
To: Marc Wiatrowski; General Red Hat Linux discussion list
Subject: RE: Commentary on the seven words

Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes; I was just trying to help; I'm
sure some people will disagree, but it's generally a better security
practice not to use clear text protocols such as telnet or ftp whenever
possible, which why I recommend sftp and ssh...

-----Original Message-----
From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
[mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Marc Wiatrowski
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:23 PM
To: 'General Red Hat Linux discussion list'
Subject: RE: Commentary on the seven words

When someone going down a dead end road stops and asks for directions,
do you explain the correct route or help him make a new road the way he
is headed?

marc

> -----Original Message-----
> From: darrel barton
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:11 PM
> To: redhat-list redhat com
> Subject: Commentary on the seven words
>
>
> As a programmer, I routinely turn to guru's for support -- especially
> for operating system and utility advice and assistance and there are
> SEVEN words -- seven very unwelcome words that I hear from time to
> time that
> drive me up the wall.   Not George Carlin's 7 words but another set:
>
> Why Do You Want To Do That?
>
> I don't want to seem like I'm attacking anyone here, because I know
> that almost everyone means well and help, whether it's what we intend
> or not --
> is still help.  But there is a danger too.   When someone
> writes to say
>
> 200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV. Hangs.
>
> and the response he gets is "try sftp" there seem to be a hugely
> missing
> ingredient:   All we did was give the man a work around to a
> problem.  Even
> if there are 400 alternatives ... FTP is SUPPOSED to work and someone
> should CARE that it doesn't.   Well, sftp helped him and he's
> on his way
> and that's great.   The only problem is that, in this case,
> 'sftp' was
> merely a workaround to a problem and if people aren't careful, Linux
> will become wat the original AT&T Unix was -- and that is to say
> nothing more that a PILE of workarounds.
>
> I wrote in with a complaint that Linux will allow a process (like Tar,

> Cpio, DD, etc) to create archives larger than that same system can
> read
> back.   Think of it as that elusive Write Only Memory we're all heard
> about.   Several people contacted me and told me all about
> Gzip and how to
> make the archive smaller and other people said it wasn't Linux' fault
> it
> was the file's fault and etc., etc., and etc.   I wonder if
> these same
> people would be so forgiving of a workaround if the problem was that
> Linux would allow a process to write to disc blocks in excess of the
> number of physical blocks without reporting errors?
>
> There is a guy that wants to be able to log in to ROOT via Telnet and
> people write back telling him that he doesn't want to even do
> that.   Well
> guess what?   I administrate one system that has 128 clients
> on it and it's
> NOT EVEN CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET.   Or .. Intranet.   One
> server, 128
> thin clients.   Why can't I log on to Root from one of those
> clients if I
> want to without the 262 additional levels of complication that ssh
> provides?   (OK -- I know that YOU have never ever EVER had a
> problem with
> ssh.  Nor anyone you've ever known.  And every ssh client you have
> ever seen works seamlessly with every ssh server that's ever been
> written .. but trust me, out there ... once ... back in 1986 .. there
> WAS a guy who had ssh problems.
>
> So when a guy writes to ask about how to enable root login from
> telnet, can't someone just say "I hope you know that's not as secure
> as ssh -- but here's how you enable that ...... ?
>
> Please just remember that some of us here have been slogging through
> this stuff for the last 20 years, trying to get an application to run,

> a documented operating system function to actually function -- and
> occasionally get enough things working that a client actually PAYS
> us.   We're not always here to hear about the way we coulda, shoulda,
> woulda restructured the whole process around stuff that some of you
> guys only invented last week, ok?
>
> "Why Do You Want To Do That?"
>
> Would be a more fair question if someone needed that answer in order
> to better understand the request -- but far too often it's not that --

> it's the beginning of someone telling me how THEY think I should be
> doing my job.
>
> So please, folks, the next time we want to do something differently
> that you think you'd do it if you were in our shoes ... cut us some
> slack and just help us out, OK?  We'd do the same for you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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The information contained in this electronic message is intended for the
exclusive use of the individual or entity named above and may contain
privileged or confidential information.  If the reader of this message
is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible to
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------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:53:03 -0400
From: "Shekhar Dhotre" <sdhotre Cedardoc com>
Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
To: "General Red Hat Linux discussion list" <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
        <728BB500F390334196448BD09D34254E0A3E27 atl0-exchdb01 cedardoc com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Bank of China - Shanghai .

-----Original Message-----
From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
[mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Steve Rieger
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 1:15 PM
To: General Red Hat Linux discussion list
Cc: Bliss, Aaron
Subject: Re: Permit root login for telnet..

i would like to know what bank you work for, am gonna make sure to close

any account i have there.



sorry for the top post.


Shekhar Dhotre wrote:
> OK , no one has access to network room here than Coms guys . Even I
> cannot go in as I am in Unix/Storages group. Our comm. guys are not
> interested in checking our passwords.
>
> Also they have access to most of the prod switches, so they are
trusted
> by the business. Again not a risk .
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bliss, Aaron [mailto:ABliss preferredcare org]
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:44 AM
> To: Shekhar Dhotre; General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> Sure, just turn on ethereal, plug into the span port on the switch.
> Very straight forward; there are even software based packet sniffers
> than can sniff past switches.
>
> Aaron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shekhar Dhotre [mailto:sdhotre Cedardoc com]
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:25 AM
> To: Bliss, Aaron; General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> Again that's all good . But, can you tell me how to see password of
> other sysadmin if he is accessing system via telnet?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bliss, Aaron [mailto:ABliss preferredcare org]
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:22 AM
> To: Bliss, Aaron; Shekhar Dhotre; General Red Hat Linux discussion
list
> Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> Telnet is also vulnerable to man in the middle attacks and ssh offers
> post authentication; telnet does not.
>
> Aaron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
> [mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Bliss, Aaron
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:13 AM
> To: Shekhar Dhotre; General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> Telent is a clear text protocol; ssh isn't.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
> [mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Shekhar Dhotre
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:11 AM
> To: General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> I have used telnet before ssh came in to the market . Do you know how
to
> hack telnet ? or break a root password without having physical access
to
> the system ? most likely the answer will be - NO .. so what's the big
> deal in ssh vs. telnet ?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
> [mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Greg Golin
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:12 AM
> To: General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: Re: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> Dear Arun,
>
> You do NOT want to enable root login via telnet - trust me on this
> one. Please tell the list what you are trying to accomplish - 99.9%
> chance is that whatever you are trying to do can, and should be done
> via ssh.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Gregory Golin
> Systems Admin
>
> On 8/24/06, Arun Williams <perks_williams yahoo co in> wrote:
>
>> How can i enable root login for telnet....
>>
>>   I tried editing /etc/pam.d/login .... but no use
>>
>>
>> ____________________________
>> Regards
>> A.Williams
>> IN THIS WORLD FULL OF DREAMS AND IMAGINATION, LOOK FOR
>>
> POSSIBILITIES...
>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>>  Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers
>>  Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version
>>
> 8. Get it NOW
>
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>>
>>
>
>


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eats the blues for breakfast,
does unix for rent,
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------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:02:15 -0400
From: "Burke, Thomas G." <tg burke ngc com>
Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
To: "General Red Hat Linux discussion list" <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
        <CBFD6AB08691C048B78837436917EE1B0205DF90 XMBMD104 northgrum com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

 Shekhar,

        I don't remember how to turn on telnet.

        That said, *ANY* comuter that can access the netowrk this server
is on can be used to sniff a clear-text password sent through telnet.  I
understand that in your specific case, this may be OK, but are you
absolutely sure that *every* employee accessing one of these computers
can be trusted not to set up a sniffer?  And any future employees?
There is no point in having a server if no one's computer can access it.

-----Original Message-----
From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
[mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Shekhar Dhotre
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:53 PM
To: General Red Hat Linux discussion list
Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..

Bank of China - Shanghai .

-----Original Message-----
From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
[mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Steve Rieger
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 1:15 PM
To: General Red Hat Linux discussion list
Cc: Bliss, Aaron
Subject: Re: Permit root login for telnet..

i would like to know what bank you work for, am gonna make sure to close

any account i have there.



sorry for the top post.


Shekhar Dhotre wrote:
> OK , no one has access to network room here than Coms guys . Even I
> cannot go in as I am in Unix/Storages group. Our comm. guys are not
> interested in checking our passwords.
>
> Also they have access to most of the prod switches, so they are
trusted
> by the business. Again not a risk .
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bliss, Aaron [mailto:ABliss preferredcare org]
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:44 AM
> To: Shekhar Dhotre; General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> Sure, just turn on ethereal, plug into the span port on the switch.
> Very straight forward; there are even software based packet sniffers
> than can sniff past switches.
>
> Aaron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shekhar Dhotre [mailto:sdhotre Cedardoc com]
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:25 AM
> To: Bliss, Aaron; General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> Again that's all good . But, can you tell me how to see password of
> other sysadmin if he is accessing system via telnet?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bliss, Aaron [mailto:ABliss preferredcare org]
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:22 AM
> To: Bliss, Aaron; Shekhar Dhotre; General Red Hat Linux discussion
list
> Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> Telnet is also vulnerable to man in the middle attacks and ssh offers
> post authentication; telnet does not.
>
> Aaron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
> [mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Bliss, Aaron
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:13 AM
> To: Shekhar Dhotre; General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> Telent is a clear text protocol; ssh isn't.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
> [mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Shekhar Dhotre
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:11 AM
> To: General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: RE: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> I have used telnet before ssh came in to the market . Do you know how
to
> hack telnet ? or break a root password without having physical access
to
> the system ? most likely the answer will be - NO .. so what's the big
> deal in ssh vs. telnet ?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
> [mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Greg Golin
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:12 AM
> To: General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: Re: Permit root login for telnet..
>
> Dear Arun,
>
> You do NOT want to enable root login via telnet - trust me on this
> one. Please tell the list what you are trying to accomplish - 99.9%
> chance is that whatever you are trying to do can, and should be done
> via ssh.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Gregory Golin
> Systems Admin
>
> On 8/24/06, Arun Williams <perks_williams yahoo co in> wrote:
>
>> How can i enable root login for telnet....
>>
>>   I tried editing /etc/pam.d/login .... but no use
>>
>>
>> ____________________________
>> Regards
>> A.Williams
>> IN THIS WORLD FULL OF DREAMS AND IMAGINATION, LOOK FOR
>>
> POSSIBILITIES...
>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>>  Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers
>> Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version
>>
> 8. Get it NOW
>
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>>
>>
>
>


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will play the flute for kicks
rides for the freedom
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------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:06:08 -0400
From: "Ryan Golhar" <golharam umdnj edu>
Subject: NFS server not responding
To: "'General Red Hat Linux discussion list'" <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <003301c6c881$e7d04400$2f01a8c0 GOLHARMOBILE1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I've google'd all over about this and can't seem to find a solution so
I'm hoping someone here can give some guidance...

I have a NFS server running Solaris in a far-off location

I have a bunch of RHEL 3 WS NFS clients mounting directories off the NFS
server in another location.

In /etc/fstab I have this entry to mount user home directories:

scifs:/users            /users                  nfs     rw
0 0

99% of the time things work well, but every once in a while the NFS
mount causes the machines to hang when used.

When I attempt to tar up a directory tree, the machine tends to hang.  I
wasn't sure what was going on at first but it looks like I have some
sort of an NFS issue.

I keep seeing these messages in /var/log/messages:

Aug 25 15:36:54 kernel: nfs: server scifs not responding, still trying
Aug 25 15:39:09 kernel: nfs: server scifs not responding, still trying
Aug 25 15:39:09 kernel: nfs: server scifs OK Aug 25 15:40:09 kernel:
nfs: server scifs not responding, still trying Aug 25 15:40:32 kernel:
nfs: server scifs OK Aug 25 15:40:42 kernel: nfs: server scifs not
responding, still trying Aug 25 15:40:43 kernel: nfs: server scifs OK

I check with our network IT folks and they show minimal network usage
between the machines (they are on different subnets in different
locations).  I double-checked by doing an scp of an directory structure
from one machines local disk to another machines local disk and it is
fast, as expected.

I ran ethereal to capture packets between the two machines and see the
tar process starting.  At some point, I start to see fragmented packets.
I'm not sure if this means anything (just yet).

So, I'm at a loss.  I don't know how to track down this problem, or even
where to start looking.  Google turned up similar issues, but there
isn't a consensus as to what is causing it.  Any ideas?

Ryan



------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:39:59 -0600
From: Jeremy Lyon <Jeremy Lyon us ibm com>
Subject: Re: NFS server not responding
To: golharam umdnj edu, General Red Hat Linux discussion list
        <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID:

<OF891DEBEB 484CB46A-ON872571D5 0071045C-872571D5 00718657 us ibm com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII








> I have a NFS server running Solaris in a far-off location

You may want to start off looking at the NFS threads on the Solaris
machine.  I believe the default is 16, which really won't cut it if you
have many active clients.  We have bumped our threads up to 1000 in our
production environments.

-Jeremy Lyon, RHCE

------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:59:08 -0700
From: "Greg Golin" <greg golin gmail com>
Subject: Re: Commentary on the seven words
To: "General Red Hat Linux discussion list" <redhat-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
        <e32a6a390608251459t6191bf44j685b76d4136f4ceb mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

This list routinely is asked to help with redhat-8 and 9. It is also
routinely asked to help with enabling rsh and telnet. (Now if a person
tells me that "this is just testing", my head says "testing is done
before production"). So if someone is asking me "hey, um, I need to
get downstairs from this 10 story building, which window would be best
to jump out of?", guess what. I will show them the stairs AND the
elevator and keep them away from the windows.

Sorry.

Regards,
Gregory Golin
Systems Administrator

On 8/25/06, Burke, Thomas G. <tg burke ngc com> wrote:
> And this would have been a good way to preface a message on how to turn
> on root access to telnet.
>
> Shoot, I use SSH & all that, but if I wanted to allow it for some
> reason, I'd ask (especially since I've been using ssh so long I don't
> remember how) - but I can think of reasons why I'd maybe want to do this
> - but only from within a firewalled area, or something completely
> disconnected from the outside world.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
> [mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Bliss, Aaron
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:27 PM
> To: Marc Wiatrowski; General Red Hat Linux discussion list
> Subject: RE: Commentary on the seven words
>
> Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes; I was just trying to help; I'm
> sure some people will disagree, but it's generally a better security
> practice not to use clear text protocols such as telnet or ftp whenever
> possible, which why I recommend sftp and ssh...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: redhat-list-bounces redhat com
> [mailto:redhat-list-bounces redhat com] On Behalf Of Marc Wiatrowski
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:23 PM
> To: 'General Red Hat Linux discussion list'
> Subject: RE: Commentary on the seven words
>
> When someone going down a dead end road stops and asks for directions,
> do you explain the correct route or help him make a new road the way he
> is headed?
>
> marc
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: darrel barton
> > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:11 PM
> > To: redhat-list redhat com
> > Subject: Commentary on the seven words
> >
> >
> > As a programmer, I routinely turn to guru's for support -- especially
> > for operating system and utility advice and assistance and there are
> > SEVEN words -- seven very unwelcome words that I hear from time to
> > time that
> > drive me up the wall.   Not George Carlin's 7 words but another set:
> >
> > Why Do You Want To Do That?
> >
> > I don't want to seem like I'm attacking anyone here, because I know
> > that almost everyone means well and help, whether it's what we intend
> > or not --
> > is still help.  But there is a danger too.   When someone
> > writes to say
> >
> > 200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV. Hangs.
> >
> > and the response he gets is "try sftp" there seem to be a hugely
> > missing
> > ingredient:   All we did was give the man a work around to a
> > problem.  Even
> > if there are 400 alternatives ... FTP is SUPPOSED to work and someone
> > should CARE that it doesn't.   Well, sftp helped him and he's
> > on his way
> > and that's great.   The only problem is that, in this case,
> > 'sftp' was
> > merely a workaround to a problem and if people aren't careful, Linux
> > will become wat the original AT&T Unix was -- and that is to say
> > nothing more that a PILE of workarounds.
> >
> > I wrote in with a complaint that Linux will allow a process (like Tar,
>
> > Cpio, DD, etc) to create archives larger than that same system can
> > read
> > back.   Think of it as that elusive Write Only Memory we're all heard
> > about.   Several people contacted me and told me all about
> > Gzip and how to
> > make the archive smaller and other people said it wasn't Linux' fault
> > it
> > was the file's fault and etc., etc., and etc.   I wonder if
> > these same
> > people would be so forgiving of a workaround if the problem was that
> > Linux would allow a process to write to disc blocks in excess of the
> > number of physical blocks without reporting errors?
> >
> > There is a guy that wants to be able to log in to ROOT via Telnet and
> > people write back telling him that he doesn't want to even do
> > that.   Well
> > guess what?   I administrate one system that has 128 clients
> > on it and it's
> > NOT EVEN CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET.   Or .. Intranet.   One
> > server, 128
> > thin clients.   Why can't I log on to Root from one of those
> > clients if I
> > want to without the 262 additional levels of complication that ssh
> > provides?   (OK -- I know that YOU have never ever EVER had a
> > problem with
> > ssh.  Nor anyone you've ever known.  And every ssh client you have
> > ever seen works seamlessly with every ssh server that's ever been
> > written .. but trust me, out there ... once ... back in 1986 .. there
> > WAS a guy who had ssh problems.
> >
> > So when a guy writes to ask about how to enable root login from
> > telnet, can't someone just say "I hope you know that's not as secure
> > as ssh -- but here's how you enable that ...... ?
> >
> > Please just remember that some of us here have been slogging through
> > this stuff for the last 20 years, trying to get an application to run,
>
> > a documented operating system function to actually function -- and
> > occasionally get enough things working that a client actually PAYS
> > us.   We're not always here to hear about the way we coulda, shoulda,
> > woulda restructured the whole process around stuff that some of you
> > guys only invented last week, ok?
> >
> > "Why Do You Want To Do That?"
> >
> > Would be a more fair question if someone needed that answer in order
> > to better understand the request -- but far too often it's not that --
>
> > it's the beginning of someone telling me how THEY think I should be
> > doing my job.
> >
> > So please, folks, the next time we want to do something differently
> > that you think you'd do it if you were in our shoes ... cut us some
> > slack and just help us out, OK?  We'd do the same for you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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