Fwd: AMD x2 chips
Mark Hahn
hahn at physics.mcmaster.ca
Fri Feb 17 00:25:02 UTC 2006
> And you're over-simplifying. The crossbar between the cores is
> _radically_different_ than between the "blocks." The control unit of
> the cores do _not_ interface. You're crossing the concepts of
> building peripherals around a core with having two _separate_ cores.
good god! look, it's simple: you claimed that the two cores on an
AMD DC chip were separate ICs. this is just plain wrong, and an abuse
of the well-established concept of an IC.
> > I'd appreciate a reference to this 16-socket system; is it somehow
> > using the new M2 opterons? the Horus people clearly think they
> > have something unique in their system, which exists precisely to
> > do the extra bookkeeping to make HT think there are only 8 nodes,
> > but still "proxy" them into a single memory address space.
>
> I'm talking about the modular 4-socket mainboards that can be
> combined into 16 (or greater) sockets. The 4-socket uses 2
> HyperTransports between each CPU, and then 2-sockets have 1
> HyperTransport to the next board (ignoring the HyperTransport links
> used for I/O). The common configuration I've seen is 4 x 4-socket
> mainboards.
>
> O---O+++O---O
> | | | |
> O---O O---O
> + +
> + +
> O---O O---O
> | | | |
> O---O+++O---O
I don't believe these exist in the AMD world - do you have a reference?
perhaps you're thinking of the Intel world, where this design could be
referring to IBM's X3 chipset, for instance, where quads are a common
building block.
> Furthermore, how does even the _single_ core+L1+L2 talk to the
> on-board memory and HyperTransport? Is that a Xbar too? Possible an
> internal implementation of EV6?
sure, the diagram for a K8 is largely identical for all models,
and like a some EV6-based systems, it is xbar-based.
> Everything I've read suggests that there are _no_changes_ in the
> dual-core from the single-core. Which suggests there is the same
> switch used inside.
you just aren't listening. Bill and I said that: that DC simply adds another
core onto the SRQ, which itself sits on the xbar.
> > an xbar is a device which can switch between any of its ports.
> > there's really no need to refer to Alpha architecture here.
> > (I have a whole room full of EV6's, and xbar is really a logical
> > construct, since not every possible connection can be made.)
>
> Okay then, virtually up to a 16-node Xbar (even if not physical).
now you're conflating the HT fabric with the within-K8 xbar.
really, the whole point here is that they're necessarily different
because the HT fabric is limited to 8 nodes, which does not count
all the xbar ports, and in particular doesn't change with DC.
> The 40-bit address and other bus limitations of EV6 are readily
> apparent in A64/Opteron, which suggests that other than the 64-bit
> ALU, PAE 52-bit "Long Mode" and 8 new XMM registers, A64/Opteron is
> little changed at the core from Athlon and its EV6.
this is bizarre - who are you arguing with?
> Which suggests they moved the Xbar inside.
> Which is why going dual and even multicore is easy.
it's easy because it the cores simply talk to the SRQ.
> > you still didn't look at AMD's diagram? the connection is
> > core->SRQ->xbar->memctrl.
>
> And what is the SRQ/Xbar?
System Request Queue is a unit that connects the core(s) to the xbar.
the xbar is a switching network that permits all the units (SRQ, 3xHT,
memctrl) to talk to each other. the xbar can't be HT-based because it
connects more units in total than HT can address.
> > correct: another port on the srq. they even brag about this, how
> > they had the foresight to design for DC in the original k8.
>
> Which is what? Is it just a new implementation of EV6 on-die?
> Everything I've read suggests so.
sigh. I have no idea what you're pushing with all the EV6 comparisons.
the EV6 was a good CPU for its time. the crossbar was actually in the
typhoon chipset (ES4x). I have a roomfull of them still running.
they were NOT hypertransport.
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