Máirín Duffy mairin at linuxgrrl.com
Wed May 6 23:56:20 UTC 2009

----- Original Message ----

> From: María Leandro <tatica at fedoraproject.org>

> > Just because things were done one way in the past doesn't mean that way was 
> the best way or the way to go now. As has been discussed on this list 
> extensively over the past couple of years, we're looking to tone down the 
> artwork a lot more and make it a bit more elegant and not 
> knock-you-over-the-head-with-something-thematic-in-every-single-available-space-used-for-artwork.
> I think that we were fine with the F6, F7 and F8 wallpapers; and the
> change was a little bit too hard. I said this before and is my
> personal opinion. I send some test in the past but I was really
> working with other issues. Besides my English isn't so good, and
> sometimes I just don't want to give an answer for not make a mistake.

I do not think we were fine because we got many vehement arguments against what we did with F6-F8 so it seemed worth trying something different.

> > The last time we did a vote was a disaster. We were getting multiple art team 
> FAS group requests daily from people who wanted to vote. Too bad we don't 
> normally get that many requests from people who actually want to help produce 
> artwork.
> There are a lot of solutions for this. For example, take the voting in
> 2 sections:
> 60% of the current art team
> 40% of a free vote

If we can't even police a vote with just the art team, how are we going to police something Fedora-wide? I think the artwork vote is going to be something people are going to sign up for accounts just to participate in. 

> Is really important to get the users opinions. They will use fedora
> and the artwork (for me) is one of the most important issues. The
> users (noobs or pro) will see the wallpaper everyday, this is really
> important.

We already get users' opinions. We've made many of the changes that occurred during this cycle because of feedback from users.

> >> I'm talking constantly with Maria Leandro, Jayme and more recently
> >> Samuele and nobody knew about the changes and decisions taked about the
> >> wallpaper/Lion.
> >
> > Ultimately, as the team lead of the art team, I am responsible for when these 
> decisions have to be made. I am the person who has to stay up all night and work 
> to make deadlines, giving up my free time up to get things done when it isn't 
> getting done. This is a role I truly do not enjoy, as it seems that the artwork 
> is ALWAYS controversial, release after release. There is no way to satisfy 
> everyone with the artwork. When one person is happy, there are 5 others who are 
> upset about it. Change things to make those 5 people happy, then there are 20 
> more who are unhappy.
> >
> We all do that Mairin. In different ways we all give something from
> our lives to the project. Is true that you take the mayor
> responsibility and always there is a group of persons who never get
> satisfied, but there are ways to know if the artwork (in this case)
> goes on the right line. Like I said, polls, interviews, comments, free
> suggestions need to be done frequently.

By saying that I am working late nights on this stuff when I don't want to is not in any way an attempt to discount the hard work everyone else does. I am just trying to illustrate being in a hard position that I do not want to be in.

We do polls and interviews and talk to people. For example, David Leray did a study of the fedora-fr forum users (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2009-April/msg00070.html). I did a survey on my blog early on. We had a lot of users bringing up comments and feedback about the artwork here on list and in the IRC channels. If you think we need to do more, who will do it? How much more do we need? How frequently? Do you have a plan in mind?

> > If they were following the list, they would have as documented above. If 
> Samuele, Maria, and Jayme have issues I would rather hear from them directly 
> than second hand, okay? I saw Samuele's message about the changes and after the 
> discussion that had ensured I had thought the confusion had been cleared up. I 
> have not heard from either Maria or Jayme about their concerns as of yet so that 
> is news to me.
> I think this isn't necessary. This is not like "who say and who didn't
> read a thread". Is right that I hasn't been reading every thread of
> the Fedora11 discussion; my mistake.; I also have a huge
> responsibility working on a lot of LATAM events, on Spanish artwork,
> Users support for new users, working on several things of the Design
> Service, and more.

We're all busy. It's not fair though, to say that a decision was not made in the open when it WAS made in the open and you were simply not listening.

> > If anyone would like to step up as art team leader, please let me know, as I 
> no longer wish to hold the position.
> >
> We need a lot of new ideas; more people working on themes. I've seen
> that in the past 2 versions, people don't send many artwork as they
> did before. This is the point that we need to take care; I'm really
> sure that if we recruit a new group of people we'll get the work done
> in time.
> And if the people won't join the Art team, we can make a poll... and
> if not, we can make a contest... and if not, we can make a public
> brainstorm... and if not....

Who is going to do these things?



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