[FLSA-2005:2336] Updated kernel packages fix security issues

[Jim Popovitch]

The problem Jesse is that nobody is going to give you or FL much money,
or very much time, when you represent the project like you do below.

I want to help nore, even possibly contribute money, but I have to see
some organization first.  If you compare FL to Debian there are striking
real differences.  OK, so FL isn't a distro like Debian, it is still an
entity that needs some good organization, a charter, and some
professionalism.  Compare FL to any other entity that is trying to gain
some respect, there are things that need to happen that just aren't
happening with FL.

-Jim P.

On Wed, 2005-03-02 at 13:10 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-03-02 at 15:34 -0500, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > How?  You are assuming that everyone on the mailinglist knew you were
> > on
> > IRC (not everyone uses that, only the core people seem to), or that
> > they
> > know your work email or phone (i haven't a clue what you do for work,
> > nor do i really care).  The point is the onus was on YOU to
> > communicate
> > after the issue was raised, not the other way around.
> 
> The people that really needed to know, the builders and such, they knew
> where to find me and got informed rather quickly.  There is no onus.
> Are you paying me money to produce these updates?  Are you paying me
> money to keep the webserver up and working?  Did I somehow enter into a
> contract that states that you must be kept informed of everything that
> happens around the project?  I didn't think so.  Get off it already.
> The outage was supposed to have been for a day, then I was told it was
> only the next day, then the next.  Then it came up and sending anything
> out was a moot point anyway.
> 
> > > Instead of spending effort to say that we're down and working on it 
> > > (people already KNEW we were down, and people DID know I was
> > working 
> > > on it), I chose instead to WORK on it.
> > 
> > BINGO!  Your definition of who knew is different than mine.  You
> > *thought* everyone knew when in fact they didn't.  Yes some people did
> > know, those people should have stepped up to the plate and told the
> > mailinglist as well.  Is this the Jesse Legacy project or is this a
> > larger team effort?  You, Jesse Keating, don't need to be doing
> > everything, there needs to be some *organized* structure for FL to
> > endure.
> 
> I don't do everything, not any more.  I haven't for quite a while.
> There is a web developer, and no less than 3 people with build and
> commit rights to packages.  In fact, I haven't touched a package in
> probably over a year.  I'm trying to handle all the higher level things
> like server maintainince, Red Hat interaction, FUD defending, hardware
> allocation, and some script writing so that the people testing and
> building packages can continue to do that with little interruption.
> 
> > > Now I've spent even MORE effort trying to stay calm and answer your
> > > statements, when instead I could have been doing something far more
> > > constructive, like spearheading our migration over to Red Hat's
> > bugzilla
> > > system, fixing some build scripts, allocating our x86_64 build
> > system,
> > > discussing our CVS commit access for FC trees etc...  Are you done
> > now?
> > > Can I go back to doing things that matter?
> > 
> > Frankly, I would rather see you delegate some responsibility to others
> > and then you take some time to define and setup an organization before
> > doing anything else. 
> > As I said before you can't be the chief cook and
> > bottle washer too.  
> 
> When I started the project, there was nobody else.  I had to do it all.
> I've been taking on help as I go along and will continue to do so.  I
> cannot however stop everything while we figure out how to manage it.
> Thats a disservice to the end users.  The nature of this game is to make
> it up as you go along, and fix the f'd up things you made up in haste.
> Thats what I'm doing now.  Deal with it.
> 
> > Going forward please communicate to the mailinglist
> > or let the mailinglist know that you don't consider it worthy of
> > keeping
> > informed.  
> 
> Sure, I'll do my best to let the list know at every little fart that
> goes on.  I'm sure the majority of people really care.
> 
> > In my opinion the crux of FL should be discussed and
> > announced on the mailinglists first.
> 
> I'm sorry, where did it say this was a democracy?  If there is a
> decision that I feel requires community input, I'll bring it here.  Not
> for a vote, but for opinions that will help me make said decision.  If
> you don't like this, you're welcome to start your own project.  Good
> luck w/ that.
> 
> -- 
> Jesse Keating RHCE      (geek.j2solutions.net)
> Fedora Legacy Team      (www.fedoralegacy.org)
> GPG Public Key          (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub)
>  
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