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Re: Re : Re: Deploring *nix Philosophy ( Was Re : Splitting archives across floppies )
- From: Robin Laing <Robin Laing drdc-rddc gc ca>
- To: pbhat ongc net, For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list redhat com>
- Subject: Re: Re : Re: Deploring *nix Philosophy ( Was Re : Splitting archives across floppies )
- Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 09:32:39 -0600
Parameshwara Bhat wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:37:46 -0600, Robin Laing
<Robin Laing drdc-rddc gc ca> wrote:I agree that computers are becoming a commoddity and almost a
necessity in the home. Look at the price of new computers in
comparison to 6 months ago. But as we have seen in the past,
networked Windows computers that have been compromised have cost
billions of dollars. I have yet to hear of a TV or smart coffee maker
doing the same damage (other than a fire). Of course as they get
smarter, the problem will occur.
Parameshwara Bhat wrote:
But should every account have sound enabled? Reading and playing CD's
is another issue as well. Do I want my children playing CD on the
computer? Again this is an administration issue. Default setups can
be configured to work across the board. I haven't played with the
settings but I haven't had the need to. Remember some hardware won't
work in Linux and from an article I read this morning, not all
hardware will work in Windows.
Yes,I believe computer is a tool, getting more and more cheaper,like
tv,many other players and other gadgets like fridge, mw ovens. Now each
has its own safety/security issue.But in a family,they are all
accessible to different family members (setting different limits is
ok,like child lock in tv).Computer cannot be on a different plane.This
adaptability and configurability are more important.It should not
require a computer guru. Linux is entering new markets in Desktop / home
PCs and it should present tools so that any educated person ( not a
computer professional ) can install it,configure it and maintain it for
normal everyday uses where a Pc is more of a typing / publishing machine
and a great multimedia entertainer. I would like Linux distros to see
the requirement of this segment and cater to this and provide good
security / reliability in this environment. It has far higher abilities
which it can keep and augment for other segments of users. If this is
ensured, hardware makers will come to Linux with support, You do not
have to go beg.
A computer can be either a tool that is secure and headache free or
full of holes and a major pain. How many home users throw their hands
up when their computers start acting funny and call their "computer"
friend to help them. I have seen so many systems that have never
updated their systems or virus software. I have seen systems that
don't even have anti-virus programs.
Now tell me how a typical home user cleans his registry file in
Windows other than doing a re-install? How many home users even have
heard about the registry? How many home users do a clean install once
a year. I have a friend that schedules a re-install each year. Yuk.
Last full install I made was on a brand new computer and on an old
computer when a HD failed.
Ease of use isn't the best in all cases. A stove is a handy tool but
I wouldn't let my daughter use it at her age. I will make sure she is
capable before using the stove. She can use the computer (linux) and
does on a daily basis. She can add icons to her desktop and tool bar.
She can play CD's and ogg/mp3 files. She doesn't have any email though.
One thing I will say about Linux over Windows is once it is
configured, it keeps working the way it is supposed to. With FC1, I
have only had one issue with sound and another with screensaver
locking up the terminal in 6 months. I had more problems with
Win2kPro in less than 2 days just trying to install some software.
Security and safety precautions are fine but as everytool in the modern
world is getting complex and coplexer, not everybody can learn
everything and to use a tool,you should not be required to know all its
internal mechanisms. That's an unfair demand on the user. By your
response, I see we both diverge here. Security /safety of any tool
should be so designed as to enable / empower a normal intelligent person
in its usage.
I agree but in the terms of security, the tool should have limited
access. A gun is a tool that can provide security but in the wrong
hands it is very dangerous. A normal person can use a gun and doesn't
have to know how gun powder is made or anything about the firing pin
or trigger mechanism. A baseball bat can be a fun tool or a weapon in
the wrong hands. As I stated before, in the cases where a person
cannot configure the workings of his computer, hire someone to do it.
People hire service techs all the time. People hire furnace service
personal each year to do regular maintenance that any home owner
could/should be able to do. How about an oil change on a car? This
is an easy task but most people I know wouldn't even think about doing it.
For all those Windows people out there, they are in for a learning
curve when SP2 comes out. The security features are already reported
to break many applications. There are going to be alot of unhappy
windows users due to these changes. Microsoft is already putting
notices out. Some applications will not work with SP2. Security in
Windows is going to change the way "normal" people use their home
computers. They are going to have to learn more about the workings.
Actually Windows is moving more towards *nix all the time.
As stated in another article I read. Most peoples experience is with
a computer that comes pre-installed with Windows already configured.
Someone else has dealt with the driver issues. They don't have to
install anything to the hardware. When it comes to Linux, it is a
user that normally installs it. This is a major difference. Of
course if someone updates their hardware or has to do an install they
may learn the hardway.
We are here to learn and any civil discussion. Some of the issues
that have been in this thread are issues that I have thought about as
well. I learn look at other issues due to discussions. I never
looked at the comparison between cars and using computers before
reading this post.
I would rather learn how to work within Linux security than deal with
all the headaches of having to re-install Windows once a year just to
clean up the registry.
I think I am putting quite a good deal in learning. I was only talking
about the macro configuration which could obviate tinkering with half
The problem with macro configuration is that it can get corrupted and
then there is a major problem. I feel that this is the idea behind
the registry in Windows. A single configuration file. A single point
for all configuration info. Limited knowledge can destroy a windows
system if the registry is corrupted. A single configuration tool can
be quite dangerous in the wrong hands. A single mistake is much
easier to correct than a system wide configuration change. A single
point of failure is not a good way to ensure security.
I do remember linuxconf from some years ago but I didn't really use
it. It was a single point of system configuration. I did try it but
it didn't work well enough to make me feel happy. Of course I have
had issues with Control Panel in Windows not working as expected and
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