[PatternFly] Browser support update

Tue May 22 20:23:44 UTC 2018

Leslie has been meeting with different team to take this decisions based on
their requirements and roadmaps. She is on vacation this week so we can
probably continue this discussing next week.

Here is my reasoning:

IE11 is a burden, not only because we can't use css variables and grid
among other modern CSS features but also because it increases the time of
development to write fallbacks and testing and it makes the codebase harder
to maintain.

Patternfly next beta will out during the next 6 month-ish and a stable
version probably by the end of the year or beginning of the next. By the
time we have a stable version and projects start adopting it, it's a safe
assumption that IE11 will be irrelevant.

Does it make sense?

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 5:01 PM, Stan Silvert <ssilvert at redhat.com> wrote:

> Maybe we can load a polyfill when we detect IE11?
>
> Would this work for all the new features you plan to use Andres?
>
>
> On 5/22/2018 3:31 PM, Stian Thorgersen wrote:
>
> On keycloak.org we have ~5% on IE11 this year. Of IE users 95% of our
> users are on IE11.
>
> Looking at https://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php there's 2.81% for
> IE11. On http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide
> it says 7.17%, which I assume is mostly IE11. They don't give details on
> individual versions as far as I can see.
>
> From my understanding there's still a lot of folks on Windows XP in the
> world and a good proportion has not updated to Edge. I remember how long it
> took to get rid of IE6.
>
> For RH-SSO and Keycloak we have login pages as well as the account
> management console that both should be available to most users. Available
> is subjective of course, but if there's CSS variables used which is not
> supported at all on IE11 I would assume it would look very bad on IE11?
>
> On 22 May 2018 at 21:05, Andres Galante <agalante at redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Stian,
>>
>> How much of that IE traffic is IE11?
>>
>> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Stian Thorgersen <sthorger at redhat.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> According to http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/wo
>>> rldwide
>>>
>>> IE11 is still more popular than Edge.
>>>
>>> I get the same numbers from keycloak.org.
>>>
>>> On 22 May 2018 at 20:07, Stian Thorgersen <sthorger at redhat.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is the world really ready to move on from IE11? For admin facing apps I
>>>> don't see it as a problem, but what about end-user facing apps?
>>>>
>>>> On 18 May 2018 at 10:53, Guillaume Vincent <gvincent at redhat.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> this is a good news, thank you patternfly !
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 1:22 PM, Andres Galante <agalante at redhat.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Stan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes! it means we'll go back to use CSS variables following the same 2
>>>>>> tier variable system
>>>>>> <https://css-tricks.com/theming-with-variables-globals-and-locals/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We'll also be able to use CSS grids to build layouts :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:14 AM, Stan Silvert <ssilvert at redhat.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm quite happy to ditch IE11.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does that mean PatternFly Next will use CSS variables instead of
>>>>>>> preprocessor variables?  Eliminating the preprocessor will make me double
>>>>>>> happy!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For our app we want to allow an administrator to do simple theme
>>>>>>> changes from the admin console.  This gets really easy to implement if the
>>>>>>> app doesn't need preprocessing.  If we have to use a preprocessor then it
>>>>>>> becomes extremely complicated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/16/2018 4:55 PM, Leslie Hinson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey Fliers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At the last PatternFly Next update, the topic of IE11 browser
>>>>>>> support came up. Specifically, the question on whether or not we needed to
>>>>>>> support it moving forward.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a result, we wanted to follow up to ensure we understood
>>>>>>> PatternFly users' browser support roadmap. From what we've been able to
>>>>>>> gather, we learned that the majority of PatternFly users that are
>>>>>>> interested in migrating to PatternFly-Next are comfortable proceeding
>>>>>>> without IE11 support moving forward. We will continue to have PF3 for any
>>>>>>> users that still require that level of support, however we don't believe
>>>>>>> that IE11 support is worth the cost for this next major version.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks to everyone that raised this concern as well as those that
>>>>>>> provided input to help us make this decision.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Leslie Hinson
>>>>>>> PatternFly Lead, UXD
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> PatternFly mailing listPatternFly at redhat.comhttps://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> PatternFly mailing list
>>>>>>> PatternFly at redhat.com
>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> PatternFly mailing list
>>>>>> PatternFly at redhat.com
>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Guillaume  Vincent
>>>>>
>>>>> Senior FrontEnd Engineer
>>>>>
>>>>> gvincent at redhat.com
>>>>> <https://red.ht/sig>
>>>>> TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED. <https://redhat.com/trusted>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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